Lightest weight road tubeless tyres...

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Global
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:50 am
Location: Temecula California

by Global

Just installed two Hutchinson 25 tubeless ready tires on my sl6 tarmac with 21 internal rivals. Both tires weighed exactly 225 grams and were easy to install. Will post measurements when I’ve ridden a couple of days.
Global :)

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

zefs wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:10 am
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:48 am
This is why I’m so confused on tubeless....so many people have vastly different experiences/opinions. Also, what’s really alarming is that there’s actually a discussion about puncture resistance on tubeless tires. If every tubeless tire has sealant why does it matter? Why doesn’t everyone run the Corsa Speed? I’m not bashing tubeless. I’m really trying to understand what issues I might encounter with one.
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I think you have understood it right based on your previous post. Tubeless tires are heavier (because of the bead) and the fast/light ones compromise puncture protection so you need choose one based on your riding conditions. Corsa Speed is for TT only and won't last many km's that's why you can't use it for every ride. It doesn't matter if it has sealant if the tread is done and you need to replace it.
The issues you might encounter are punctures that are too big for the sealant to fix and you have to use worms/plugs or a tube. Not sure why you are getting confused, depending on how many punctures you are currently getting you can select an equivalent tubeless tire and eliminate that.

Before I go tubeless I was having 2 punctures per year on GP4000s2 but never had something pierce the tire so bad that I had to repair it or throw it away (I was changing the tires every about 4000k and they had more life in them). If you get a similar tubeless tire you eliminate the same punctures and pinch flats.
I looked at some tire tests on www.bicyclerollingresistance.com. I'm running 66g. innertubes with the Conti 4K. Using data extrapolation I estimate the RR of my setup is on par with the Schwalbe Pro One (about 11w at 120psi). However some people say the Pro One is too light and not durable enough. It seems that when using the Conti 4k as a benchmark, it's not feasible to find a tubeless tire that beats the Conti 4K in mileage and rolling resistance. If such a tire exists please let me know which one (RR < 11w and thicker thread than the Conti 4k).

Another one of my concern is temperature. I don't do indoor trainer rides. If the ambient air temp. is above 20 degrees I will be riding. What happens to sealant when the ambient air temp. drops below 30 degrees? Will it seal a punture at 20 degrees?

by Weenie


zefs
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

The Mavic Yksion UST or the Hutchinson Performance 11 storm would be similar to the GP4000s2 in my opinion if not better and those tires are more supple (Conti has harder casing like Schwalbe Pro One). I wouldn't run them at so high pressures for general riding, only if racing.
The selant shouldn't have issues at those temps since they work on wide range which is listed on the product. How many punctures are you getting currently and which tubeless wheel combo are you interested in?

Also reading reviews on shops about tires is a bit misleading because everyone rides at different conditions. If someone rides in poor conditions with a race tire and then gives poor review you get the idea, that's why I asked how many punctures you usually get with your current setup.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

GP4K SIIs are very polarizing tires. Seems either you love them and they last for 3000mi or you frequently get sidewall tears with them at random. I was in the latter camp.

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

zefs wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:58 am
The Mavic Yksion UST or the Hutchinson Performance 11 storm would be similar to the GP4000s2 in my opinion if not better and those tires are more supple (Conti has harder casing like Schwalbe Pro One). I wouldn't run them at so high pressures for general riding, only if racing.
The selant shouldn't have issues at those temps since they work on wide range which is listed on the product. How many punctures are you getting currently and which tubeless wheel combo are you interested in?

Also reading reviews on shops about tires is a bit misleading because everyone rides at different conditions. If someone rides in poor conditions with a race tire and then gives poor review you get the idea, that's why I asked how many punctures you usually get with your current setup.
I don't keep a log on flat quantity but I'm guessing I flatted about 15 times last year. I put in 11,800 road miles last year so that's an average of 800 miles per flat. All of last year I used Conti Supersonic 50g. tubes, which is obviously not that durable. But I was OK with it since the RR is very close to latex, perhaps within 0.5 watt. This year I've switch to a slightly more durable innertube, one that weighs 66g.

If I switch to tubeless I don't want to go backwards in terms of durability or speed compared to the Conti 4k. It seems that the Mavic Yksion UST and Hutchinson Performance 11 Storm are both slower than the Conti 4K with the 66g. tube.

I have three wheelsets, Hed Belgium Plus on the tandem and two sets of Campy Boras for the half-bike. The Boras aren't officially tubeless-ready but I've heard others run tubeless tires on them with no issues.

I've never had a side-wall cut on the Conti 4K. And I go through quite a number of tires a year, since a tandem can be quite hard on the rear tire.

I don’t run 120psi. That’s the pressure I use on paper to compare different tires on rolling resistance.

Funny thing is that about half of my flats happen inside the garage. Meaning I walk by the bike and see the tire is flat. So it could be that I flat very close to home and they are slow enough of a leak that I didn’t even notice it while riding. I just had such an ‘indoor’ flat yesterday. So my 15 flats last year isn’t as bad as it sounds, haha.
Last edited by pdlpsher1 on Tue May 22, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

spdntrxi the pro one are fast but so are those lightweight Hutchinsons but they are probably no better for punctures than the Pro one's.

Mavic yskion tyres are pretty low Crr and while I prefer IRC tyres myself (wet grip and wear rate) the mavics are not bad at all. I think many would get on with them fine. they are wearing a bit too quickly for me and the wet grip is good but not stellar. I like the best I can have as I dont want to slow down because it wet, although it been dry in the u.k for over a week. That is quite unusal and us brits have nothing to moan about weather wise you might even catch a few of us smiling.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

pdlpsher1 Thje belgium + rims dont have the lip next the well to stop a tubeless tyre unseating at zero pressure so this rim to me is tubeless compatible in name only. Tubeless tyres do seat though but will unseat with a proper flat.

Crr is different at lower pressure and increases by differing ammounts depending on the tyre. so you cant compare at 120psi and draw firm conclusions. The order of Crr is normally preserved though but the gaps may close or widen.

Go with a mid weight tubeless tyre or a heavier one. Panracer, IRC roadlite or X guard (the roadlite is actually faster and more comfortable), mavic or hutinson storm 11 tyres these should serve you well and some of them will cut the puncture rate (IRC roadlite or X guard should).

I am not convinced about rolling road test. Having had some done on the IRC tyres the results dont compare with some others done on the same tyre by the US distributor (order of Crr) evn when corrected for differing conditions. So the Crr of a tyre on test is under those conditions and I am not sure the order is presevered on the road. some road testing is needed.

I dont think the mavic/hutchinson tyres are lower Crr in the real world compared to conti GP4000's. On real roads given the lower pressures you can run they might be quicker. The conti's start to feel sluggish at 80 psi the mavic's don't.

zefs
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

bm0p700f wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:18 pm
The conti's start to feel sluggish at 80 psi the mavic's don't.
That was also my experience, tubeless tires seem to roll well even on lower pressures probably because of the lack of inner tube which may be adding even more rolling resistance on lower pressures. I used to use 120psi on conti's and use 80psi on tubeless.

Based on the count of punctures you are getting a mid weight or heavier tire like bm0p700f suggested should work well.
But maybe it would be better to go for a tubeless ready combo instead of an unofficial setup that might or might not work.

tonytourist
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:13 am
Location: 93306

by tonytourist

I just got 2 Hutchinson Fusion Galaticks in 25 from Competitive Cyclist and they weighed in at 219 and 223g each. I ran one for a few rides with a tube while waiting for a replacement Pro One. They'll go on next, I'm not too worried about wear as they were dirt cheap, mainly more concerned with puncture/cut resistance, but as long as they can handle goat heads I should be ok with sealant.

extremejetfighter
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 2:39 am

by extremejetfighter

I weighed 2 schwalbe pro ones both 25c. They were 251 and 309g. :shock:

Is such a large weight discrepancy between two nominally identical tires...normal?

spdntrxi
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

^ ...should not be normal

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

251g is about right. 309g is just...what? Are there any noticeable imperfections? A 58g difference is very noticeable in hand.

Global
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:50 am
Location: Temecula California

by Global

Following up on my 25 Hutchinson tubeless ready 11 storm tires. They are great so far about 120 miles this week and they now measure 28.21 on my 21 ID rovals. Comparable to the conti 25s they replaced at 28.5.Both tires had 80 psi.Rolling speed feels equal but the Hutchinson’s are way smoother. I’ve also had pro one 25s and 28s way to many punctures. My wife has Zipp tangent speed tubeless 25s they measured 27.3 at 70 psi and weighed 285 grams. So far they are also excellent.
Global :)

zefs
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Which version are you using? Performance?

by Weenie


Global
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:50 am
Location: Temecula California

by Global

Galactic 225 grams
Global :)

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