ENVE 4.5 AR DISC VS Roval CLX 50 DISC

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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TonyM
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by TonyM

“Specialized product manager Joe Buckley said the design team made the transition to hookless carbon rims as a way to improve impact resistance and cut manufacturing costs.

“In carbon rim production, there are a couple ways to make a bead hook. You can mold it into the rim, which is pretty challenging because you are trying to pack a lot of carbon material into a very small space. This can lead to high reject rates at the factory and drive up cost of the rim. Or you can mold the rim and then machine the bead hooks into the sidewall, which creates a nice bead hook, but adds steps to production, which costs more, and also when you machine the rim, the carbon fibers are being cut, which weakens the rim a bit. By creating rims without bead hooks, we were able to get the impact resistance of the rim to improve by a lot, and bring the cost of the rim down as well,” said Buckley.”

From Bike Radar

by Weenie


Bordcla
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by Bordcla

On this specific point, I did query Enve about the reasons behind their "tubeless only" guideline for the 4.5AR when Roval does not issue such a guideline for the CLX 32 or 50, which also have hookless rims. Their answer was because the 4.5AR has a much wider hook spacing (25 mm vs 21 mm for the next widest available road wheel). They said that in testing, they witness many actual instances of non tubeless tires blowing off and that after seeing that, they themselves would never ride them with non tubeless. Certainly in my mind, that seals the issue: if I ever get 4.5ARs, I have to assume I can find and run a tubeless tire I like as much as my habitual Conti's. I hope this helps.

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Beaver
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by Beaver

Didn't realise the CLX were also hookless, interesting:

Image

But they put 24mm Turbo Cotton on these and those are more like 23mm tires of other brands - so 28mm on 25C shouldn't be a problem?

28mm will also need less pressure... :noidea: But honestly, I would only use hooked rims when tire and inner rim width are that close.

ODC
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by ODC

Still in doubt about these wheelsets...
The external measurement is almost the same for both wheelsets. It’s the inner space that’s bigger on the Enve.
I do racing so my biggest doubt is the minimal 28mm tyre on the Enve. Something in my head says bigger = slower

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Will you run tubeless?

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Beaver
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by Beaver

ODC wrote: ↑
Mon May 14, 2018 10:39 pm
Still in doubt about these wheelsets...
The external measurement is almost the same for both wheelsets. It’s the inner space that’s bigger on the Enve.
I do racing so my biggest doubt is the minimal 28mm tyre on the Enve. Something in my head says bigger = slower
If you want best aerodynamics for racing, you will have to run the Roval with a 23mm tire up front. With a 25mm tire this benefit is nearly gone.

The Enve with 28mm tires will have an a few watts higher aero drag but the lowest rolling resistance. If they still feel like a road bike I can't tell, but some customers said no. That's a matter of taste in the end.

Maybe think about 46x28mm 21C Light Bicycle rims with Carbon Ti X-Hubs and 25mm tires. Those would also be lighter than the other two.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/Road-bicyc ... lable.html

And in two months they will offer 30mm wide rims with 23mm inside. You could run a 25mm tire up front and 28mm on the rear.

ODC
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by ODC

Beaver wrote: ↑
Tue May 15, 2018 7:07 am
IIf they still feel like a road bike I can't tell, but some customers said no. That's a matter of taste in the end.
What do you're customers mean with that? Does it feel more like an MTB with the ENVE AR?

Another thing to consider is that the roval clx50 is not available until end of June where I live. The CLX64 is available but I think those are maybe little bit to high. Although I have ridden with zipp 404nsw and those are 58mm.

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Beaver
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by Beaver

You will have to try it by yourself - 28mm tires on 25C are >32mm wide, that's not as lively and responsive as it should be for a road bike for some people.

https://enve.com/de/products/ses-4-5-ar ... F164037828

But in the end these are all road wheels...

The aero difference between Zipp 404 and 808 at 45km/h were 0.2 watts (222 watts/221.8 watts)... and higher rims are heavier and less comfortable.

Unless you are a professional time trial rider, these just don't make any sense (or you like the looks).

Bordcla
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by Bordcla

Interesting development:


Mark Currie (ENVE Composites)

May 24, 09:30 MDT

Hi Claude,

Thanks for the email. We don't recommend that you use the 4.5AR with a non-tubeless tire, because of the shape of the tubeless rim channel and it's hookless bead.

However, we have tested the 28mm Continental GP4000SII on the 4.5 AR and it does comply with our maximum inflation standards. We're comfortable with you riding that tire on the 4.5 AR with a tube, and that combination will be totally safe. The tire must be a 28mm GP4000SII, and any other clincher tire is not compatible. The maximum pressure is still 80psi.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Mark Currie
Lead Consumer Experience

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Beaver
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by Beaver

One should be on the save side here, as those tires come in really wide (31mm even on 17C rims) - as opposed to e.g. GravelKing...

Theologian
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by Theologian

If I remember correctly, the Roval CLX 50 is optimized for 28mm tires in windtunnel. So even though it's inner dimension is narrower, you should really look at the aero numbers for 28mm tires for both.

romanmoser
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by romanmoser

No the Roval CLX50 are optimized for 26 mm specialized tires ( 25 mm tires of others brand )
Who inflates to 27 28 mm on wide rims

Delorre
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by Delorre

Beaver wrote: ↑
Tue May 08, 2018 9:06 pm
Didn't realise the CLX were also hookless
Maybe it's only the disc version. I've bought a pair of CLX50 rim brake yesterday, and they are hoocked. In my mind, even my clx 32 disc are hoocked...

jlok
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by jlok

The hooks are much less pronounced, but still not completely hookless.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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Beaver
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by Beaver

Theologian wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:49 am
If I remember correctly, the Roval CLX 50 is optimized for 28mm tires in windtunnel. So even though it's inner dimension is narrower, you should really look at the aero numbers for 28mm tires for both.
The narrower the tire, the better: http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... party.html

Image

by Weenie


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