Bora WTO

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
calleking
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:20 pm

by calleking

I'm considering selling my Enve 4.5 clinchers with DT240s for a set of WTO 60's. I'm running them with latex tubes and they're amazing to be honest. I'm very impressed with tubeless for gravel/mtb and I can see the pros for road racing. Selling them would be a straight +-0 affair in terms of money.

Worth switching?
2018 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Sagan Superstar DA 9150
2016 Focus Mares CX 8050

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tomyboy123
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:40 am
Location: Europe

by tomyboy123

Well, this is the result on my two mounth old 60 WTO, after 2 steep local sections not really a hill, 200m 16% descent fallowing 300m 18% descent with small flate in between, no braking before that.
Did modulate OFF and ON as humanly possible. Result was 0.2mm "Warped" sidewalls on both sides in one spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFH4S-e ... e=youtu.be

I use normal cincher tires at 6.5 bar, paired with extralight tubes and original Campagnolo break pads. No problems before, did all sorts of long and short descents. Can't imagine what will happen on some long hard descent in Alps or Pyrenees.
Really didn't expect this from top Campagnolo product. We will see, if they will honor the warranty or I will have to throw this expensive Italian plastic in the bin...:roll: :evil:

by Weenie


Madone69
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: Cape Town - South Africa

by Madone69

:smartass:
tomyboy123 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:13 am
Well, this is the result on my two mounth old 60 WTO, after 2 steep local sections not really a hill, 200m 16% descent fallowing 300m 18% descent with small flate in between, no braking before that.
Did modulate OFF and ON as humanly possible. Result was 0.2mm "Warped" sidewalls on both sides in one spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFH4S-e ... e=youtu.be

I use normal cincher tires at 6.5 bar, paired with extralight tubes and original Campagnolo break pads. No problems before, did all sorts of long and short descents. Can't imagine what will happen on some long hard descent in Alps or Pyrenees.
Really didn't expect this from top Campagnolo product. We will see, if they will honor the warranty or I will have to throw this expensive Italian plastic in the bin...:roll: :evil:
The decents were these requiring braking due to bends or were they just straight decents.
I would lean towards more a spoke tensioning or even a hitting a pot hole issue more than a brake track issue :smartass:

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tomyboy123
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:40 am
Location: Europe

by tomyboy123

Madone69 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:04 pm
The decents were these requiring braking due to bends or were they just straight decents.
I would lean towards more a spoke tensioning or even a hitting a pot hole issue more than a brake track issue :smartass:
Straight descent, no corners, but had to use more breaks, otherwise I would hit 70 km/h+ and you have to stop at the end, to get on the main road. I know it is a steep nasty pace of road, but I checked the wheelset right after, how worm they were and they were only slightly warm to the touch, nothing special.
Way less than my old Bora tubular.
Immediately after that, when I first hit the breaks, I felt that something is wrong. So clearly, I didn't hit any pothole as the this section is really smooth and would feel that. before that something is wrong with breaking surface.
I have the machine and spoke tension meter and all the spokes are 100%, like when they were new and the wheel is otherwise completely true, except for this spot.
And 0.2mm warp is the same on both sides, so this is clarly not the spokes tension problem. I always record new wheelsets for factory tension on every spoke, before I starts using them and they are all within the factory parameters.
I have to admite that Campagnolo is really the best ragarding this, wheel can be 5 years old and still factroy true.
There is also small bump in the middle of the beed, as clearly indicated that the material just gave up and started do delaminat on the spot.

MaxPower
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Hm... Strange that it is the back wheel. Front i could understand if breaks are used "normally" without dragging.

Report back if warranty claim works.

MaxPower
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Double post

kevinw
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

So i've had my second club ride embarrassingly cut short due to a sidewall failure when using these rims.

Might just be unlucky but I've never had an issue after using a set of UST rims for years so was wondering if there is anything I need to change with my setup? Fist tyre was a GP5K and second was a Hutchinson performance. I'm wondering if I need to change my tyre pressure? I usually go for 80 at the front and 90 at the back = i'm around 78kg.

Both punctures were the result of a pothole, coming from tubes I'm used to high pressures being the best defense against pinch-flats but I'm wondering if the opposite might be true for tubeless?

Also, is the max tyre pressure reduced on wider rims? If so how much? My UST rims are c17.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

I've seen a 5000 cut and never seal back after its first more serious pothole, about 80 psi and 80Kg rider. I think it had too much air, not enough sealant and perhaps not the greatest sealant either (Stans - very good ime for small holes but for cuts it seems not so good). We are currently trying Orange, nice so far.

kevinw
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

So is 90psi too much for a rear c19 rimmed 25mm tyre then? Seems so.

My Hutchinson tyre just says 115psi max, but interestingly my Mavic tyre I just put on says 109psi max for c17 and 89psi max for c19

Pierre86
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 3:53 pm

by Pierre86

kevinw wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:02 pm
So is 90psi too much for a rear c19 rimmed 25mm tyre then? Seems so.

My Hutchinson tyre just says 115psi max, but interestingly my Mavic tyre I just put on says 109psi max for c17 and 89psi max for c19
Yes that's a bit high, my rear pressure in a veloflex 25 on a belgium+ is at most 80psi and I'm 93kg.

Conceptually you can think of it as air volume underneath you, a wider rim will have the 'same' volume of air within it at a lower pressure
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MaxPower
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Were can i find replacement spokes for wto's? Tried google without luck

Madone69
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: Cape Town - South Africa

by Madone69

MaxPower wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:46 am
Were can i find replacement spokes for wto's? Tried google without luck
Shoo. Why.please tell what happened :unbelievable:

MaxPower
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Madone69 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:16 pm
MaxPower wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:46 am
Were can i find replacement spokes for wto's? Tried google without luck
Shoo. Why.please tell what happened :unbelievable:
Nothing - considering giving them a try (curiosity mainly) but i like to have spokes/nipples and fitting wrench at hand IF something goes wrong (90 kg dude is har on wheels).

I managed to fatigue sapim cx-ray spokes on the nds after 10.000km on another nice wheel set. (broke 3 in like 2 months and rebuild the wheel after the third, 24 spoked wheel, straight pull spokes))
After that, and that it is impossible for me to source fancy stuff like that locally means i have a spare part shelf at home for bearings and spokes/nipples.
Peace of mind...

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Should be available at campy pro shops... But in an emergency, cxrays or aerolites might work. They are pretty close in size to bora spokes.

by Weenie


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tomyboy123
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:40 am
Location: Europe

by tomyboy123

MaxPower wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:46 am
Were can i find replacement spokes for wto's? Tried google without luck
Highly unlikely, that you will ever break a spoke on a Bora with normal use.
But if you do, I wouldn't bother with finding replacement spoke, especially, if is is on the back G3™ system. You have to have some skills truing that.
"Campag techs get specific G3 training as the build and true process, is not like a conventional wheel"
So I really would bother thinking about that, just pay 20-30 EUR in the Campy shop for the truing or replacing the spoke., which will probably never happen.
Watch out for the rim, that is much more problematic part, than the spokes.
Mine is already being shipped to Campagnolo and waiting for the answer, to be or not to be....:evil:

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