Bora WTO

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
skyboy
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:59 pm

by skyboy

Exactly, why pick 50 over 35 and then remove any aero advantage it may have over the 35s?
Wouldn't the 35 be the better wheelset when if you remove the slight advantage the 50 has over it?

by Weenie


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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Nope. My 50s are still faster than the 35s with the same tires mounted. Like I said earlier my 50s are my everyday wheels including climbing rides. But I need the 35s in the winter because I get a lot of wind here in the winter. Hence I have both.


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neeb
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

I had both (tubulars). Ended up selling the 50s. For some reason I never got on with them - I think the rear was maybe just too stiff for me at 64kg. They felt kind of wooden, weren't any faster than the 35s for me, while also having problems in gusty conditions that the 35s don't. Love the 35s though. Oddly enough I also like my deep section Reynolds Aero 58 clinchers - they DO feel a little faster than the 35s (although not as lively obviously) and seem to be better in the wind than the Bora 50s despite the slightly greater depth. Curious how I would get on with the WTO 60s..

skyboy
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:59 pm

by skyboy

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:14 am
Nope. My 50s are still faster than the 35s with the same tires mounted. Like I said earlier my 50s are my everyday wheels including climbing rides. But I need the 35s in the winter because I get a lot of wind here in the winter. Hence I have both.


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With wider tyres the air will have already detached and become turbulent before reaching the rim,
It's the tyre and rim combined that makes the aero shape.
If the 50s are faster while having tyres that remove the aero advantage then there is something else that's a factor.
Something else that is not aerodynamics is making the 50s faster for you.

wintershade
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

I have a new (custom bare Ti endurance geo) coming next month. It's built Campy SR 12 rim brake. I was originally thinking of speccing it with WTO 45 bright label (mostly for aesthetics of an all Campy build, with matching graphics and carbon finishes), but I'm having second thoughts. I already have tubeless ready Zipp 404 NSWs and a 303 NSW front (so could run a 404/303 combo). Or given I won't really be racing the bike -- just long rides and fondos, maybe I even run Shamal Milles (which I also have). It really is kind of hard to beat their braking power (for rim brakes).

Any reason to get the WTOs over sticking with what I have already?

Also worth noting, I have a custom steel Stelbel Rodano Disc "winter bike" coming which will be running WTO 45 dark label discs (will be my first disc brake bike). So this would mean both of my "non race" bikes would have the same wheelset, which could be either a good thing or kind of boring.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Raced my WTOs Wendesday night in a 44km Handicapp roadrace.. our average speed was 43.5kmh.. fast wheels for sure.. very little wind that night, so I can't comment on crosswinds.. normally I always ride/race a 50mm plus... Ive been exclusively riding my Bora Ultra 50 clinchers with spec Turbo cottons in a 24 and latex tubes on both the Bora Ultras, and WTOs.. Faster than the Ultras.. can't say for sure, but they handled nice, no flex.. Im 6'1 and 168 pounds... Im very used to riding in nasty crosswinds being a Canadian Prairie chicken... (40-60kmh isn't out of the ordinary)
I had already ordered the CULT bearing kit and got the proper tools from Europe the other day, so I swapped the USB setup for the CULT setup on hte front this morning.. instant free bearing roll.. just like the Bora Ultra hubs.. USBs are awesome, don't get me wrong.... the process of swapping the cups/cones literally took minutes.. the most important thing to do when working with the front hub is DO NOT do the 5mm allen key trick on both sides.. its been mentioned before and I'll mention it again.. the 5mm cap without the adjustment cap is the one that is supposed to stay put on the axle!! If you do the 5mm both sides trick that one will come loose, and you have no chance of getting the axle out without taking extreme measures (ie go order a new front axle) Once the axle is free, I just used the proper cup removal tools.. a few smacks with a mallet from the back, and pressing in the new cups took a matter of minutes... insert bearings, some oil, seals, cones, and boom, we have a CULT WTO 60 wheel... the rear will be similar and will take a matter of minutes as well.. I will not need to remove the freehub body from the axle.. everything I need to remove is on the NDS side...
Taking suggestion from Graeme, to remove the front endcap safelt, I got 2X 3/16 square steel pieces.. they were 4 inches long.. I put those in a vice, and carefully lined up the steel square peices with the flat spots on the hub.. tighten vice, insert 5mm on adjustment side, one good push, and off the cap came....

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Calnago
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

@Pariscarbon: are the hubs in the WTO any different internally than the Boras? And can you post a pic of the Cyclus tool you got used to punch out the actual cups which are pressed into the hub shell. I like Cyclus tools quite a lot actually. You missed some good phtoto ops there. Would have been nice to see everything all strewn out all over your workbench. I know, I’m weird that way, but I’ve not had the chance to pull one of these wheels apart yet. Thought they were pretty much the same as Boras, or most Campy wheels. Are they?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

I havent done the rear yet, so I can take some shots.. won't be any different than doing the front... Im going for a 4ish hour ride then gonna eat dinner... I'll try and get something up tonite, including images of tools....

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Calnago
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Nice! I’ll stay tuned. I’m so very weird.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Havent forgot about you!! By the time I was done riding, other stuff got in the way (like building my Lego Saturn V rocket) yeah yeah.. even us old guys are still kids deep down inside :)
Bearings to be done in the next few days with pics!

AlexC
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:24 pm

by AlexC

ParisCarbon, Calnago,

I just ordered a set of Bora Ones with the intention of upgrading the hubs to CULT bearings and races at some point and would love to see a detailed thread about this process and what specific tools are needed.

A few specific questions I have are:
1. What are the exact tools required? I see Cyclus makes a number of different sized bearing removal tools as well as presses and drifts for Campagnolo hubs. Which ones are required for post 2015 Bora hubs? And are different sizes needed for front and rear? Is Cyclus the only manufacturer making tools for this?

2. When pressing in the new CULT cups, is any grease or anti-corrosion paste required on the outer surface of the cup where it contacts the hub shell? Or is it a dry fit? (I’m aware the CULT bearings themselves don’t require grease, only light oil)

3. Ditto the cone/axle interface. Dry? Grease?

Apologies if this post is slightly off-topic, but I’d really like to see this subject explored in greater detail without derailing the WTO thread. Do you think this specific topic warrants its own thread? I’ve searched the forums for information and can only find bits and pieces of info on proper procedure, tools, etc. Might be nice to have all the relevant information in one place with clear step by step instructions and tips

Thanks!






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ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Alex/Calnago:
Not looking like I am going to get at the rear tonite...
These are the Cyclus part numbers of the tools, and yes Alex, unfortunately you are correct, the front is a different size extractor... My understanding is Cyclus worked with Campagnolo on the design of the tools...
The following are the Cyclus part numbers/links to bike24 where I ordered from:
Rear Cup Extractor Part # 720112
https://www.bike24.com/p2276469.html
Front Cup Extractor Part # 720082
https://www.bike24.com/p2276437.html
Press tool Part 720113
https://www.bike24.com/p289253.html

I simply pressed the cups in, the ones I popped out came out dry as well... took 2 light taps with the mallet to "pop" em out
My cones are dry as well.. I just put a drop of Prolink ProGold on there , worked it in, and did things up... I was told only a few drops of oil are needed on the bearings.. there is no need to "flood" them so to say...

The most important thing is to follow what I said in the thread above with the two flat steel bars on the flat spot of the hub.. I was told by another member they used multile cone wrenches to build up space and then popped the 5mm end cap.. I took the advice given and went with the 2X square steel bars.. I was told 5mm, but I could only get my paws on 3/16 which is essentially 5mm.. I got the 2 lengths cut at 3 inches so there was alot of support in the vice.

Use this video for reference as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM9SiZVYe_g

I will post pics of tools etc over the next day, you are free to PM me as well if you have any questions!

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

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2 X 3/16 square steel pieces on flat part of axle... put these in vice, and crank off 5mm endcap on other side.. gaurantee to save your axle!
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Cup extractors
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Press tool
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Ready to knock the USB cups out
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WTO NDS internals
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Drive side internals
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Pressing new cups in
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New cups in
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WTO 60, CULT Treatment, Super Record 11-23 cassette, Turbo Cotton 700X24 with Vittoria Latex tubes
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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Very nicely done!


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by Weenie


AlexC
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:24 pm

by AlexC

ParisCarbon,
Thanks so much for all the great information and pics about this process!

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