Bora WTO

[Cheesehead88]

Hi all,

I bought the WTO 45 and now looking for new tyres. What are you guys running?
I am not sure if I want 25 or 28.
Also thinking about the Pirelli P Zero TRL SL 26.
Do I lose the aero with 28s?

[jlok]

I'm running Corsa Speed G2.0 25mm on my 60. It sits flush with the rim, pretty aero to me.

I'd probably put 28 at the rear if you care about maximum aero but want the tire volume; 28/28 when maximum grip/volume required.

[PoorCyclist]

I run pirelli 24mm

[bobones]

I have been running 23 mm Corsa Speeds on my 60s. These measure 25 mm and are are perfect for 105 rule. I'll probably move to 25 mm GP 5000 S TR, which are a little over 26 mm. 28s (and maybe even 26s) are a bit too wide for 105 rule adherence on these wheels.

[neeb]

I'm also running 23mm on my WTOs (Continental 5000s).

As above, 23mm on the WTO rims will measure about 25mm when mounted. I do think it's weird how everyone has gone from 23mm (as measured) tyres to 30mm+ (as measured) tyres in the last few years as a supposed "standard" for road bikes on normal tarmac surfaces.

People really weren't *that* wrong 10 years ago. True, 25mm (as measured) might be a better compromise than 23mm (as measured), but with clinchers on modern rims you get that by running 23mm (as marked) tyres.

AFAIK most pros are still using 25mm tubulars in most conditions (which will measure 25mm of course).

[PoorCyclist]

it's something about wider tires giving less rolling resistance because you don't have to pedal / lose watts to overcome tiny bumps.. I think we would all be very fast running schwabe big apple tires.

[neeb]

it's something about wider tires giving less rolling resistance because you don't have to pedal / lose watts to overcome tiny bumps.. I think we would all be very fast running schwabe big apple tires.

But wider tyres only offer lower rolling resistance at the same pressures as narrower tyres, which would make them very unformfortable.. Rolling resistance is about the same on normal surfaces for all commonly used tyre widths when you run them at pressures that offer comparable comfort levels (i.e. the same "cushioning", in effect).

The advantages of wider tyres come in when you require a comfort level and/or optimal deformation for RR that you would not be able to obtain with narrower tyres without risking pinch flats / bottoming out

Provided that you can run 23mm tyres at their optimal pressure for comfort and rolling resistance without risking pinch flats, then they will be faster, because wider tyres will be less aero (significantly so if they are wider than the externakl rim width, but also even if they are just wider).

At 64kg I can run 23mm clincher tyres on the WTO rims at 95/90 psi (which I think is about optimal) without pinch flats. If you are heavier then 25mm might be more suitable.

The wide tyre thing is largely marketing aimed at selling tubeless tyres (which aren't really practical at narrower tyre widths).

And the rolling resistance gains of tubeless (at a given tyre width) are negligible compared to clinchers with latex tubes.

[usr]

People really weren't *that* wrong 10 years ago.

Ten years ago people rode the 4000s that was called 23mm, but is exactly as wide as the 5000 they call 25mm on the rims of the day. So they really weren't that far from what they do today.

[Cheesehead88]

I see that on my WTOs there are 3 little holes on one side, I guess it's for the water.. is it usual that there are 3 of them on the WTO 45s?

[PoorCyclist]

I want to remove that warning sticker from mine, does it peel off easy without heat?

[bobones]

The wide tyre thing is largely marketing aimed at selling tubeless tyres (which aren't really practical at narrower tyre widths).

And the rolling resistance gains of tubeless (at a given tyre width) are negligible compared to clinchers with latex tubes.

I agree that it's largely marketing, but it's more to do with disc brake bikes than tubeless tyres IMO. Discs are so powerful that they require a larger contact patch to prevent locking up under heavy braking. Also, disc bikes tend to be less comfortable due to beefed up forks and rear triangles required to support braking forces, so wider tyres at lower pressures can offset that. Marketing has flipped this to make wider tyres desirable by emphasing greater comfort and rolling resistance, which also has the effect of making disc bikes more desirable because they are able to support wider tyres than rim frames in general.

I have recently been riding 28s and 30s on my rim brake TCR, and there has been no epiphany on comfort for me with wider tyres: there's just not as much difference as people seem to make out. My bikes are perfectly comfortable with 23s and 25s, so for me the wider tyres is more about added grip in the wet going up steep slopes. My sweetest ride of all is still tubeless 23mm Corsa Speeds at 80 PSI on WTOs mounted to my SK: a veritable magic carpet ride right there. The truth is rim brake road bikes don't need anything wider than 25s (or maybe 28s if the bike is particularly uncomfortable).

[dsk28]

In the market for new wheels. Shortlisted the Campagnolo and Princeton.
Campagnolo Bora Ultra WTO 45 vs Princeton Peak 4540
Campagnolo Bora Ultra WTO 60 vs Princeton Wake 6560
What would you choose and why?

Mates & I are in the same dilemma.
Would love to hear more experiences regarding this comparison.

[GorrGrimWolf]

I ride Bora WTO 60. Honestly never really understand why anyone would buy something like 45 when the weight difference is negligible. Unless you are in an area where strong wind is pretty much constant and you are a light rider or don't handle the bike very well.

Bora is quite narrow by today standard and Vittoria G2.0 25 is slightly over and over the 105% rule, I guess. Bora is just a beautiful wheelset. Great hubs and handle the winds with the right tires very well. Sound is amazing

[usr]

"...where medium wind is pretty much constant."

Personally I can't think of a day where I wouldn't either consider 60s well acceptable or prefer going down all the way to something like 33s or Zondas. I guess there are two niches, one is actual racers with full choice on race day (or perhaps even within the race?) and the other is OEM where the default assumption is one wheel for everything.

[neeb]

Hmm, I love the 60s and while they're definitely better in windy conditions than the old 50s were, there's genuinely a noticeable difference with the 45s (which are a bit like the old 35s wind-wise). I'm light, though.

The 45s are just more relaxing to ride in the wind. But the 60s are definitely faster, and I'm thinking there's a beneficial "sail" effect in lighter winds.

Not sure if it was the wheels, but I was riding the WTO 60s yesterday (in near perfect spring weather, hardly any wind), and the bike just felt wonderfuly stable descending. I'm usually a slightly nervous descender but felt great yesterday with these wheels.