Bora WTO

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
Alexandrumarian
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

jgpallero wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:56 pm
Hi:

I own a Bora WTO 33, and I would like to try Continental Supersonic inner tubes (only 55 grams) plus Wolfpack Race tires. My question is it it will be safe for such carbon wheels. This summer I've planned astay in French Pyrenees, known for hot temperatures, and my plan is to ascend (and obviously descend) some cols of more than 15 km. The good news is that I'm superlight and my weight is only 60 kg, but I'm not completely sure if Supersonic inner tubes+Bora WTO is a good choice.
I think the descent can be even 100Km as long as the road is wide, good surface, under 10%. When it gets hairy you can overheat it in minutes, or at least I can at 95 Kg. I melted the front tubular glue completely and got a big bulge when the tire resettled poorly in just 2 minutes of hard braking on this darn hill. Poor surface (worse than google suggests) dungs sand no visibility because of vegetation....
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jgpallero
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:13 pm

by jgpallero

Another question about Bora and in general all carbon rims, this time about rim brake cleaning. Which is the best way to clean the brake track? Only water? Maybe alcohol? I know that for aliminium rims there are products such as https://www.swissstop.com/en/accessorie ... liergummi/, buth obviously it can not be applied to a carbon rim

by Weenie


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eaten14
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:16 pm

by eaten14

Alexandrumarian wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:14 pm
... When it gets hairy you can overheat it in minutes, or at least I can at 95 Kg. I melted the front tubular glue completely and got a big bulge when the tire resettled poorly in just 2 minutes of hard braking on this darn hill. ...
How many minutes and have you been more or less dragging them? I'm similar weight and got my wheels this spring. So far all good, but ofc the weather is not as hot as it is in summer usually. So I'm curious how careful I need to be - for Stelvio and similar passes I would probably change back to ALU wheels.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

It is 3Km 5 mins but the trickiest part is the final Km where it averages 11%. Dragged them a lot as the road is narrow, dirty and with poor visi, anytime you could get a car in your face. I just don't have the guts to let it roll. I've done it about 5 times but always in cold autumn weather. It ends in a busy main road so every time i would stop to check the front rim - very warm / hot but not blistery. Same experience as every time I stopped to check after a very steep descent. When I melted the glue it was in august but less than 30 deg. Did some home experiements and at 100 degrees the glue turns liquid, easy then for the tub to move around. When it cools it resets very fast. Maybe I had it many times in the past but luckly not enough force to move it?

IanisCercariolo
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:58 am
Location: Vaud, Switzerland

by IanisCercariolo

jgpallero wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 9:12 am
Another question about Bora and in general all carbon rims, this time about rim brake cleaning. Which is the best way to clean the brake track? Only water? Maybe alcohol? I know that for aliminium rims there are products such as https://www.swissstop.com/en/accessorie ... liergummi/, buth obviously it can not be applied to a carbon rim
Acetone is the best to clean a brake track, it removes the pad residues easily :wink:

eaten14
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:16 pm

by eaten14

Alexandrumarian wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:53 pm
It is 3Km 5 mins but the trickiest part is the final Km where it averages 11%. Dragged them a lot as the road is narrow, dirty and with poor visi, anytime you could get a car in your face. I just don't have the guts to let it roll. I've done it about 5 times but always in cold autumn weather. It ends in a busy main road so every time i would stop to check the front rim - very warm / hot but not blistery. Same experience as every time I stopped to check after a very steep descent. When I melted the glue it was in august but less than 30 deg. Did some home experiements and at 100 degrees the glue turns liquid, easy then for the tub to move around. When it cools it resets very fast. Maybe I had it many times in the past but luckly not enough force to move it?
Oh ok, that's interesting, I'm having clinchers and I'm just curious if the rims survice. Tube exploding is my fear, but if the rims stay ok and do not delaminate then it's at least some positive there haha.
I'm already afraid of summer :D .

LordPikaChu
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:13 pm

by LordPikaChu

Hey everyone! That's my first post on this forum :)

I'm looking to buy a set of WTO45s. I am currently riding FFWD F6R tubular old generation wheels. Bought them used together with my bike, and the previous bike owner has also bought them used, so they are probably heavily exploited model from somewhere around 2014 or so.

I mainly do not want to bother with tubulars, plus the breaking on them is terrible, even in dry conditions, so I'm looking for all round wheels that I can sefely use both on flats (where I live) and in the mountains.

Now the question is - has anyone made similar switch in the past and could tell me how the ride quality and comfort is going to look like with WTO45 compared to my current wheelset? Reading this entire thread I'm pretty confident that WTOs are going to have superior breaking performance. They are going to add around 150g of weight, so this doesn't look like such a big penalty. But what's the ride comfort of new gen clincher/tubeless wheels compared to old school tubulars like these FFWDs that I currently have?

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

LordPikaChu wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:01 pm
Hey everyone! That's my first post on this forum :)

I'm looking to buy a set of WTO45s. I am currently riding FFWD F6R tubular old generation wheels. Bought them used together with my bike, and the previous bike owner has also bought them used, so they are probably heavily exploited model from somewhere around 2014 or so.

I mainly do not want to bother with tubulars, plus the breaking on them is terrible, even in dry conditions, so I'm looking for all round wheels that I can sefely use both on flats (where I live) and in the mountains.

Now the question is - has anyone made similar switch in the past and could tell me how the ride quality and comfort is going to look like with WTO45 compared to my current wheelset? Reading this entire thread I'm pretty confident that WTOs are going to have superior breaking performance. They are going to add around 150g of weight, so this doesn't look like such a big penalty. But what's the ride comfort of new gen clincher/tubeless wheels compared to old school tubulars like these FFWDs that I currently have?
I use Vittoria Corsa tubulars with 55mm Easton wheels and 45mm WTOs with Vittoria Rubino Pro clinchers and Supersonic thin inner tubes.

Generally the ride quality and road feel are not as good on the clinchers. Tubulars are well known for great road feel and comfort as well, depending on tyre pressure. They are also better at resisting heat building up from the braking than clinchers.

You may not like the results if you use cheap clinchers with heavy tubes. I think that if you use good quality cotton clinchers with a high threads per inch (tpi) count you will be OK with comfort. But latex inner tubes may be a no-no if you live in a mountainous area.

You can also try tubless with lower tyre pressure for more comfort, probably safest for long and steep descents.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

LordPikaChu
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:13 pm

by LordPikaChu

Nickldn wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 3:45 pm
LordPikaChu wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 2:01 pm
Hey everyone! That's my first post on this forum :)

I'm looking to buy a set of WTO45s. I am currently riding FFWD F6R tubular old generation wheels. Bought them used together with my bike, and the previous bike owner has also bought them used, so they are probably heavily exploited model from somewhere around 2014 or so.

I mainly do not want to bother with tubulars, plus the breaking on them is terrible, even in dry conditions, so I'm looking for all round wheels that I can sefely use both on flats (where I live) and in the mountains.

Now the question is - has anyone made similar switch in the past and could tell me how the ride quality and comfort is going to look like with WTO45 compared to my current wheelset? Reading this entire thread I'm pretty confident that WTOs are going to have superior breaking performance. They are going to add around 150g of weight, so this doesn't look like such a big penalty. But what's the ride comfort of new gen clincher/tubeless wheels compared to old school tubulars like these FFWDs that I currently have?
I use Vittoria Corsa tubulars with 55mm Easton wheels and 45mm WTOs with Vittoria Rubino Pro clinchers and Supersonic thin inner tubes.

Generally the ride quality and road feel are not as good on the clinchers. Tubulars are well known for great road feel and comfort as well, depending on tyre pressure. They are also better at resisting heat building up from the braking than clinchers.

You may not like the results if you use cheap clinchers with heavy tubes. I think that if you use good quality cotton clinchers with a high threads per inch (tpi) count you will be OK with comfort. But latex inner tubes may be a no-no if you live in a mountainous area.

You can also try tubless with lower tyre pressure for more comfort, probably safest for long and steep descents.
This is kind of my plan. Due to how my FFWDs brake in the dry (terrible) I'm not gonna use them for mountain riding either way. I plan to use Vittoria Corsa Control with inner tubes for flat terrain and set them up tubeless when I go riding in the mountains :) You said that latex tubes are no good for mountains, is that because they can pop from the heat buildup?

maxim809
Administrator
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

I used to run circa-2014 FFWD F6R clinchers. Came paired with black SwissStops. The brake track on the FFWD's were horrible. The terribad braking perf had everything to do with that generation of FFWD carbon rims brake track being bad. I bought them brand new so did not have multiple owners. A well respected LBS here who dealt the FFWD brand actually refused to order and sell me these wheels back in the day because they knew the quality was poor... so I bought them online and I found out the hard way. :P

You will not be disappointed moving over to the Bora WTO's. Especially if coming from those FFWD's. Nearly all modern textured carbon brake tracks from any big manufacturer will be a huge step up in comparison.

I have a pair of WTO 60's which I love now. Thinking of getting 45's just to have for a future build. That's how much I like them.

maxim809
Administrator
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Re: WTO tire/tube selection

1. The Vittoria Corsa Control G2.0's tubeless in 25mm's mounted incredibly easily on the WTO's. Seating was incredibly easy with a charge pump. Last subtle but huge convenience is the WTO is 2-way fit so no need to setup rim tape.

2. I've ridden with TPU Aerothan's / Revoloop for their heat resistance properties, as well as nice latex-like qualities. Drawback is expensive. Some say there is more of a chance to delam the rim before blowing a (latex) tube, but honestly I don't know how any of us civilians can confirm this at home to truly map riding scenarios to failure modes. Anyway, I ride the TPU stuff for peace of mind since I climb/descend a ton; even if it's just false courage it helps mentally after reading too much about latex/carbon on steep hot descents.

3. Re: latex in carbon rim, yes you got that concern correct. I've done latex in carbon on flat roads where I barely brake. Gets to be a concern when you start stacking super hot days, with high system weight (rider + bike), super steep switch-backy alpine descents... etc etc. But see my previous comment about hard to know what will fail and how for a given scenario. So need to make a judgement call based on risk tolerance and the course conditions.

Anyway yeah you'll like these wheels I think.

LordPikaChu
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:13 pm

by LordPikaChu

maxim809 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:09 pm
I used to run circa-2014 FFWD F6R clinchers. Came paired with black SwissStops. The brake track on the FFWD's were horrible. The terribad braking perf had everything to do with that generation of FFWD carbon rims brake track being bad. I bought them brand new so did not have multiple owners. A well respected LBS here who dealt the FFWD brand actually refused to order and sell me these wheels back in the day because they knew the quality was poor... so I bought them online and I found out the hard way. :P

You will not be disappointed moving over to the Bora WTO's. Especially if coming from those FFWD's. Nearly all modern textured carbon brake tracks from any big manufacturer will be a huge step up in comparison.

I have a pair of WTO 60's which I love now. Thinking of getting 45's just to have for a future build. That's how much I like them.
Alright then, looks like Bora WTOs will be the finishing touch to my Oltre XR4 😄 This and I have to sort out issues with my Campy derailleur 😄

You're right that there's no way for us, mortals, to really test what fails first - the inner tube or the rim, so I'm gonna stick to non-latex ones (or tubeless) for the piece of mind and confidence on descents.

Thanks for all your advices! Now the only problem is: Corsa tan walls or black walls for the inner tube setup. Oltre looks amazing with 60mm rim and tan walls, not sure how it'll look like with shallower rim 😄

KaiWren
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 10:05 am

by KaiWren

As for the new BORA ULTRA WTO, 36 teeth ratchet is mentioned for the hub. Does it mean that Campagnolo is finally using ratchet mechanism instead of a traditional design? Cannot find any photos though.
Does anyone have more details on the new hub design and engagement mechanism? Some photos would be nice.

tepextate
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:27 am

by tepextate

For those of you in the US, do you know what a good source for Bora WTO 45s is currently? Having trouble finding any stock and wondering if I'll need to go gray market!

jgman
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:08 pm

by jgman

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by Weenie


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