Bora WTO

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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rollinslow
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

I'm really surprised by this. There are really no other cases I was aware of of a Bora WTO delaminating due to heat. I wonder if the whee was actually defective or apparently it is possible. They do things like drag the brakes all the way down Ventoux (Mavic) to prove a point.

Really unfortunate.
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by Weenie


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MasterBean
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:18 pm

by MasterBean

A warranty replacement is not a quick thing. I'm sure you can find a shop and buy some cheap aluminium rims so you can enjoy your holiday. Mavic Aksium or Shimano RS010 would do.

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smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

Pukutis wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:46 pm
For the wto rim brake, has anyone tried any light weight exotic tubes? What is your experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tried with latex tube...
Result is on one rear WTO 60 destroyed.
However I'm still uncertain if the problem was Vittoria Corsa or latex tube....after that I'm not riding Vittorias nor latex tubes :noidea:
20200822_123621.jpg
20200822_123733.jpg

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

wilwil wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:45 pm
Im surprised to read this. Mine stop really badly. They are also noisy. Braking is nothing like as good as disc brakes and not as good as aluminium. I have direct mount brakes too. Am I doing something wrong with brake set up I wonder.
Mine stop very good, I don't feel any difference compared to my alu rims. I have Campagnolo DM brakes (BR19-DM model), red Campagnolo pads and 11 speed ergo levers.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

I use vittoria latex tubes on all my Bora WTOs, no troubles at all. Why would you expect to have any?

If anything, the slightly tighter fit of the tyres on a tubeless ready rim such as the WTO should be safer for latex, although you DO need to make sure they are fitted properly! I find the pink colour of the vittorias helps with this as you can clearly see if the tube is caught under the bead. I also usually pump up the tyres to high pressure (130 psi) and then let them down again and reinflate to normal pressure after fitting a tyre or tube, just to check all is ok and fully settled.

I'm also surprised to hear of that overheating issue on the Angrilu and have likewise not heard any similar stories with current generation boras.

usr
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

neeb wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:04 pm
I use vittoria latex tubes on all my Bora WTOs, no troubles at all. Why would you expect to have any?
Latex being more susceptible to not surviving excessive brake heat. Certainly no problems to be expected if you are on disc (just mentioning that in case you were)

neeb wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:04 pm
I'm also surprised to hear of that overheating issue on the Angrilu and have likewise not heard any similar stories with current generation boras.
Well for starters that was Angliru and not Ventoux, a difference like night and day when it comes brake heat challenge. The steep part of Angliru has 800 meters vertical on 5.8 km distance where it *never* dips below 10%, whereas Ventoux only has short sections that go beyond 10% and even those are less steep than what those 5.8 km have average. Ventoux might be noticeably tougher than those alpine passes designed with the requirements of horse-drawn artillery in mind, but if you contrast it with something like Angliru, that difference fades.

And chances are the brake tracks on smokva's where still far from reaching their limits when the latex did.

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nickf
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

smokva wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:08 am
Pukutis wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:46 pm
For the wto rim brake, has anyone tried any light weight exotic tubes? What is your experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tried with latex tube...
Result is on one rear WTO 60 destroyed.
However I'm still uncertain if the problem was Vittoria Corsa or latex tube....after that I'm not riding Vittorias nor latex tubes :noidea:
20200822_123621.jpg
20200822_123733.jpg
Maybe the tube was not properly installed? Its easy with latex during installation to get the tube pinched between the tire and rim. The tube will hold but eventually will creep and blow off in a sudden event.

Tifosiphil
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:09 pm

by Tifosiphil

nickf wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:30 pm
smokva wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:08 am
Pukutis wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:46 pm
For the wto rim brake, has anyone tried any light weight exotic tubes? What is your experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tried with latex tube...
Result is on one rear WTO 60 destroyed.
However I'm still uncertain if the problem was Vittoria Corsa or latex tube....after that I'm not riding Vittorias nor latex tubes :noidea:
20200822_123621.jpg
20200822_123733.jpg
Maybe the tube was not properly installed? Its easy with latex during installation to get the tube pinched between the tire and rim. The tube will hold but eventually will creep and blow off in a sudden event.
In this situation where the tyre is blown off the rim it is almost always one of two scenarios. The tube was pinched between the rim and tyre and didn't blow out inititally but at some point during your ride, I've had this before with tubes where they are fine but as soon as you ride they puncture.

The second option is you got a flat and carried on riding/slowing down and pulled the tyre off the bead unfortunately neither problem would have been a latex tube or Vittoria's fault, just user error.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

usr wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:55 pm
neeb wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:04 pm
I use vittoria latex tubes on all my Bora WTOs, no troubles at all. Why would you expect to have any?
Latex being more susceptible to not surviving excessive brake heat. Certainly no problems to be expected if you are on disc (just mentioning that in case you were)
I'm curious if this has actually been demonstrated. As long as the rim and tyre are intact and the tube has been properly installed, it can't expand and blow-out due to heat. So it would have to actually melt while still inside the tyre. Has anyone seen this happen?

usr
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

neeb wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:52 pm
I'm curious if this has actually been demonstrated. As long as the rim and tyre are intact and the tube has been properly installed, it can't expand and blow-out due to heat. So it would have to actually melt while still inside the tyre. Has anyone seen this happen?
I actually share those doubts, but not enough to try for myself. Part of me likes to imagine that even a fully melted tube would still be a rather nice sealant. But who knows what's really going on in those milliseconds between everything is fine and there's a painful shockwave traveling up to your ears. Even if we threw millions at a lab it would be difficult to learn more than we guess from the occasional equipment post mortem. Who knows, perhaps there's some intermediate between "it's a good tube" and "it's a good sealant" that is insanely good at tweezing itself between bead and rim and lifts the tire with the ease of a ten foot tire lever. We don't know, because when it's happening it happens hidden inside the rim, while it's rotating, and while we are laser-focused on a road that is basically trying to kill us.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

And equally there are all sorts of hypothetical catastrophic issues that you could have with any tyre system. So ultimately we just have practical experience to go on.

Most tubulars have latex inner tubes of course and those don't seem to melt.. So we are just left with the hypothesis that latex can somehow squeeze itself under a tyre bead even when the tube is properly installed. If it's possible, it's the sort of thing it should be feasible to replicate in a lab. Would be a useful thing to try.

PoorCyclist
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

muntos wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:50 pm
Honestly I don't find any problem with my braking technique, I'm not the guy that descends pulling the brakes levers all the time, I brake using both front and back and just pinching the brakes as is needed then releasing them.
But hell, if I didn't found a warning card in the wheels bag stating "DON'T descend Angliru when is hot or if you do it you better have Pidcock's descending skills !" then excuse me, my fault !
How fast were you descending? The faster you go, the kinetic energy increase is squared because it is calcuated by square of velocity. If you squeeze the speed down from 40mph and repeat, it would heat up fast. Possibly hotter than dragging and keeping 25 mph.

But other variables depends how much dragging and squeezing and how fast, and the road itself. Next time stop at a corner and feel with your finger if it's too hot to touch it's time for a snack and wait for the rim to cool down.

AW84
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

So the WTO's....a better option than wider but lesser quality, comparatively priced alternatives? Looks like they're about $1650 USD from Starbike, whereas LB, Hyper, and similar options are a few hundred cheaper but more modern internal width. Seems like everything about the WTO's is superior other than the width.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

AW84 wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:08 am
So the WTO's....a better option than wider but lesser quality, comparatively priced alternatives? Looks like they're about $1650 USD from Starbike, whereas LB, Hyper, and similar options are a few hundred cheaper but more modern internal width. Seems like everything about the WTO's is superior other than the width.
There's really nothing inherently superior about wider wheels, it just depends what tyres you want to use and what sort of riding you do. 19/26.5 is pretty much optimal for fast riding on even half-decent roads.

muntos
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 5:41 pm
Location: Romania

by muntos

PoorCyclist wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:00 am

How fast were you descending? The faster you go, the kinetic energy increase is squared because it is calcuated by square of velocity. If you squeeze the speed down from 40mph and repeat, it would heat up fast. Possibly hotter than dragging and keeping 25 mph.

But other variables depends how much dragging and squeezing and how fast, and the road itself. Next time stop at a corner and feel with your finger if it's too hot to touch it's time for a snack and wait for the rim to cool down.
This is subjective to many aspects, like tarmac quality, how twisted is the decending, traffic, wind.. even mood :) .
My speed record is 92 km/h when I start to fear and pulled the brakes :lol: .
Anywhay I have my fair share of climbs and descends most of them with carbon wheels but I never thought to stop in the middle of descend and check my rim temperature :noidea:
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I know sounds maybe stupid when it comes to not buying a cheap front wheel, but these are maybe once in a lifetime rides and I wouldn't like to look at the pictures later and say "ah, this was on Tourmalet or Hautacam, so beautiful, but look how ugly the bike looked"... :roll:
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by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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