Bora WTO

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smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

Tifosiphil wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:04 pm
nickf wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:30 pm
smokva wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:08 am
Pukutis wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:46 pm
For the wto rim brake, has anyone tried any light weight exotic tubes? What is your experience?


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I tried with latex tube...
Result is on one rear WTO 60 destroyed.
However I'm still uncertain if the problem was Vittoria Corsa or latex tube....after that I'm not riding Vittorias nor latex tubes :noidea:
20200822_123621.jpg
20200822_123733.jpg
Maybe the tube was not properly installed? Its easy with latex during installation to get the tube pinched between the tire and rim. The tube will hold but eventually will creep and blow off in a sudden event.
In this situation where the tyre is blown off the rim it is almost always one of two scenarios. The tube was pinched between the rim and tyre and didn't blow out inititally but at some point during your ride, I've had this before with tubes where they are fine but as soon as you ride they puncture.

The second option is you got a flat and carried on riding/slowing down and pulled the tyre off the bead unfortunately neither problem would have been a latex tube or Vittoria's fault, just user error.
To be honest I don't know what happened exactly...
The facts:
- tires (Vittoria Corsa) and tubes (Challenge latex) were rather new...only few houndred kms.
- this was not the first ride after initial installation of the tires and tubes, I had few houndred kms before. So I don't think it was faulty instalation and I always check instalation after.
- it happened on descent, but nothing that would heat up the rims or melt tube
- accident was accomanied by loud explosion
- 20 minutes before accident I had to climb over some 50 meters of paved road under construction, maybe there was some damage to the tire there but that would probaly manifest immediatley.
- minutes before explosion I heard two pings like when spoke breaks or when you launch a rok with a side of a tire. Both times I stopped to inspect wheel and couldn't find anything. After that I went down slow and with cauton which probably saved my arse from falling and injuries.

My impression is that tire carcass fell appart and pinging sounds were cotton threads breaking under pressure. Once enough threads broke there was nothing to keep preassure anymore and it blew. After it blew it also blew off tire from its bead or tire was taken from the bead while dragging the wheel on the ground for some 20 meters. The reason I had to drag the wheel is because tube got stuck arround the brakes stopping wheel from turning.
Here is another picture showing damage on the tire. I'm not sure if this is where tire blew, where it was dragged or both.
20200825_201251.jpg
Whatever happened I don't blame the wheel for the cause of the incident.

rollinslow
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

I'm curous what people think. The rim brake Bora Ultra 50 and 35's are no longer on Campy's webiste which makes me think they are truly discontinued. There are some sets of the Bora Ultra 50 floating around and I am tempted to buy them while I have the chance. The alternative is a set of WTO 33's as I already have the WTO 45 on my rim brake bike.

Would you go with the old ultras while you can or get another set of WTO?
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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

Personally I'd only choose the old ultras over the WTOs if I was going for tubulars. They're just a little too narrow, even 23mm clinchers will bulge out beyond the 24mm external width. The tubular ultras work really well with 23mm front / 25mm rear, though.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

Just checking the Campagnolo website - indeed, no old Boras listed at all. Does this mean that Campagnolo no longer makes tubular wheels? If so, that's rather tragic.

PoorCyclist
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

muntos wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:25 am
PoorCyclist wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:00 am

How fast were you descending? The faster you go, the kinetic energy increase is squared because it is calcuated by square of velocity. If you squeeze the speed down from 40mph and repeat, it would heat up fast. Possibly hotter than dragging and keeping 25 mph.

But other variables depends how much dragging and squeezing and how fast, and the road itself. Next time stop at a corner and feel with your finger if it's too hot to touch it's time for a snack and wait for the rim to cool down.
This is subjective to many aspects, like tarmac quality, how twisted is the decending, traffic, wind.. even mood :) .
My speed record is 92 km/h when I start to fear and pulled the brakes :lol: .
Anywhay I have my fair share of climbs and descends most of them with carbon wheels but I never thought to stop in the middle of descend and check my rim temperature :noidea:

stats.png

I know sounds maybe stupid when it comes to not buying a cheap front wheel, but these are maybe once in a lifetime rides and I wouldn't like to look at the pictures later and say "ah, this was on Tourmalet or Hautacam, so beautiful, but look how ugly the bike looked"... :roll:

1658485185788.jpg
Nice work, so are they replacing it or not? It's bike24 say no, or campy say no?

muntos
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 5:41 pm
Location: Romania

by muntos

Once I return home I 'll send the wheel to bike24 and they will send it to Campa for evaluation, but I don't have many hopes...

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

neeb wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:59 pm
Just checking the Campagnolo website - indeed, no old Boras listed at all. Does this mean that Campagnolo no longer makes tubular wheels? If so, that's rather tragic.
Ability of tubular to continue riding with flat tire is important in peleton. So it's rather surprising that hey are leaving racers without that option.

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ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4460
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by ultimobici

smokva wrote:
neeb wrote:
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:59 pm
Just checking the Campagnolo website - indeed, no old Boras listed at all. Does this mean that Campagnolo no longer makes tubular wheels? If so, that's rather tragic.
Ability of tubular to continue riding with flat tire is important in peleton. So it's rather surprising that hey are leaving racers without that option.
Tubeless with insets allows that too.


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smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:42 pm
Tubeless with insets allows that too.
Does anyone have actual experiance with that? I might give it a try, not on racing bike but on touring bike.

1llum4
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:00 am

by 1llum4

Will depends on the specific insert you want to run but yes some insert let you ride flat without damaging the rim. Look for insert that cover the full width of the rim and sit on the rim bed. Insert that float in the middle on the tire don't give much rim protection.

wilwil
Posts: 694
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

rollinslow wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:08 pm
rollinslow wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:27 pm
wilwil wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:45 pm
rollinslow wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:03 pm


Naturally, the brake pads are extremly grippy. Mine stop better than my disc brake bike. I assume you already "toe in" the pads? Also, use a coarse grit sand paper litely on the pads.
Im surprised to read this. Mine stop really badly. They are also noisy. Braking is nothing like as good as disc brakes and not as good as aluminium. I have direct mount brakes too. Am I doing something wrong with brake set up I wonder.
Make sure you are toed-in, proper pad placement on the brake track, and sand and glazing off the pads using a coarse grit sand paper.
Ive tried all this. Just got back from very hot France and when decending a mountain they were awful and I could smell the brake pads overheating. They also started screaming. I dont drag the brakes just try to slow down for the switchbacks. Also, I would expect more wear on the pads than there is.

PoorCyclist
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

I'm using the pads that came with the WTOs and they do wear quick, also squeal on the 2nd of 3rd hard braking. If you stop and touch carbon rims they do get hot quickly, that's why I don't really like to descent more than 200M elevation with them, in winter there more tolerance because it is already 50-60F colder to begin with.

octav
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:40 pm
Location: Bucharest

by octav

I want to replace a set of Bora One 50 tubular with some Bora WTO for my Colnago Master.
Should I get the 33s or 45s ?
Did anyone switch from Bora tubular to WTOs? How is the ride compared?

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eurperg
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Finland

by eurperg

I made the switch from One 50 tubular to WTO 60. Feels heavier, but more stable in crosswinds. I think I can cope with the weight increase because I know they roll better than any tubular and are also more aero.

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neeb
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

Yup, I'd say that if you're OK with the crosswind stability of the 50s, go with the WTO 60s, they'll be no worse and maybe even better. And they don't feel like heavy wheels at all when you;re riding them (well, they're not heavy).

45s a great allrounder.

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