New wheels day. Lightweight Gipfelsturms

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sungod
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by sungod

that combo looks good, the black version makes the difference in profile less apparent

imho the obermayer rear in particular has a magic combination of stiffness with comfort, i always feel the difference when i swap wheels, this way you get the the best of both worlds :)

TurboTommy
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by TurboTommy

KCookie wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:07 am
Gipfelsturm - Obermayer combo. Image

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That’s a pretty nice looking combo!

I mentioned in another thread I’ve got a set of meilenstein 24e Schwartz edition on the way. I’ve no regrets about buying them. I knew they divided opinion before I pulled the trigger but I just had to scratch the itch I guess... But now I must admit I’m a little nervous about taking them to the Pyrenees with me this summer. I’ve wondered in the past if the wider profile will actually make them slightly more difficult in crosswinds. Time will tell I guess.

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853guy
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by 853guy

TurboTommy wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 pm
That’s a pretty nice looking combo!

I mentioned in another thread I’ve got a set of meilenstein 24e Schwartz edition on the way. I’ve no regrets about buying them. I knew they divided opinion before I pulled the trigger but I just had to scratch the itch I guess... But now I must admit I’m a little nervous about taking them to the Pyrenees with me this summer. I’ve wondered in the past if the wider profile will actually make them slightly more difficult in crosswinds. Time will tell I guess.
Hi Tommy,

Do you - or does anyone - know if LW plans on releasing Obies and Gips in 24mm width?

Cheers,

853guy

TurboTommy
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by TurboTommy

853guy wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:47 pm
TurboTommy wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 pm
That’s a pretty nice looking combo!

I mentioned in another thread I’ve got a set of meilenstein 24e Schwartz edition on the way. I’ve no regrets about buying them. I knew they divided opinion before I pulled the trigger but I just had to scratch the itch I guess... But now I must admit I’m a little nervous about taking them to the Pyrenees with me this summer. I’ve wondered in the past if the wider profile will actually make them slightly more difficult in crosswinds. Time will tell I guess.
Hi Tommy,

Do you - or does anyone - know if LW plans on releasing Obies and Gips in 24mm width?

Cheers,

853guy
Hi mate

If I was guessing I’d say they’d release obies for sure. Email them they’re very helpful. KGT on here suggested I did that when I questioned whether they were going to release a wider meilenstein. I did, and lightweight basically told me without telling me, that they were on the way.

KCookie
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by KCookie

sungod wrote:that combo looks good, the black version makes the difference in profile less apparent

imho the obermayer rear in particular has a magic combination of stiffness with comfort, i always feel the difference when i swap wheels, this way you get the the best of both worlds :)
Cheers sungod.
Yes the black logos do look better, that's why I bought these as I couldn't stand having the Ventox on the front with four white logos.

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sungod
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by sungod

out of interest, what diameter tyres do you use on the obermayers?

i switched back to narrow last year, but this is the first time i've been on them since in 40+ kph winds and fast/twisty roads, they are a lot more stable with veloflex sprinters, the tendency to catch as the angle changes is way less than with carbons, suprising how much difference

if you normally run wider on the front, might be worth a try going narrow next time you change tyres

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It’s not the tires. I’ve been riding some Lightweights off and on over the last few weeks with 22mm tires and they are just as disconcerting as they ever were. Even cruising on the flats, when a big semi truck went by (as often happens) it felt like I was going to be sucked underneath. Down a hill and a slight gust, same ol same ol. Never happens with the Boras, not like that at least. And the pulsing, forget about modulation... and I don’t think this set is even hardly out of true. I will measure later this week because now I’m interested in just how little they need to be off for that pulsing to be very present. If anything I felt a bit bigger tire makes them a big more stable. 24s fit ok. 25’s are getting too big for these rims. And the final thing is the sound of the freewheel... it’s like a bloody tractor with that DT Star ratchet in there. I remember having built a set of nice wheels with the DT Swiss 190 hubs. Same thing, the sound of the ratchet drove me nuts. Same for the friend I sold them to. So we put the higher tooth ratchet in and that was even more obnoxious... the sound just went from a throaty 4 stroke Harley to a two stroke motocross machine being chased by a swarm of wasps.
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KCookie
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by KCookie

sungod wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:56 pm
out of interest, what diameter tyres do you use on the obermayers?

i switched back to narrow last year, but this is the first time i've been on them since in 40+ kph winds and fast/twisty roads, they are a lot more stable with veloflex sprinters, the tendency to catch as the angle changes is way less than with carbons, suprising how much difference

if you normally run wider on the front, might be worth a try going narrow next time you change tyres
I always use the carbons, can't go any bigger as the Fibulars won't allow it. I was actually considering using an extreme for the front, mainly for weight saving.
Since Using the Gipfelsturm up front the bike is now very stable in high winds, so much more confidence hammering down hills at 90+kmh, where the Obie would scare the shit out of me, whilst being on the brakes the whole time.

KCookie
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by KCookie

Calnago wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:12 pm
It’s not the tires. I’ve been riding some Lightweights off and on over the last few weeks with 22mm tires and they are just as disconcerting as they ever were. Even cruising on the flats, when a big semi truck went by (as often happens) it felt like I was going to be sucked underneath. Down a hill and a slight gust, same ol same ol. Never happens with the Boras, not like that at least. And the pulsing, forget about modulation... and I don’t think this set is even hardly out of true. I will measure later this week because now I’m interested in just how little they need to be off for that pulsing to be very present. If anything I felt a bit bigger tire makes them a big more stable. 24s fit ok. 25’s are getting too big for these rims. And the final thing is the sound of the freewheel... it’s like a bloody tractor with that DT Star ratchet in there. I remember having built a set of nice wheels with the DT Swiss 190 hubs. Same thing, the sound of the ratchet drove me nuts. Same for the friend I sold them to. So we put the higher tooth ratchet in and that was even more obnoxious... the sound just went from a throaty 4 stroke Harley to a two stroke motocross machine being chased by a swarm of wasps.
With the four sets of Lightweights I've got I've never had that pulsing affect, maybe I'm just lucky with very true wheels, and I've never noticed the tractor like sound when freewheeling. Now you've mentioned it, it's going to be on my mind when out riding today. 😀
Even with the two problems you've mentioned that the Lightweights suffer from, I still bloody love them.

RyanH
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by RyanH

@Calnago
Try running them with the Campy red pads. I couldn't get the LW pads to stop screaching so I figured I'd try the red pads. Braking felt very similar in feel and power to the Boras.

While on the topic of LW and tire width, I noticed that the LW with 22mm tires feel very nimble so when you're twisting and throwing the bike about, they ebb and flow assuredly through those motions. The Boras with 27mm tires feel out of sync (if you don't have a good rhythm) and sometimes feels like the bike will fold under itself (for lack of a better description) even with high psi.

Do you all think that's more attributable to the LW or the narrow tires?

glepore
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by glepore

Personally, I just think that's the downside of wider tires. Ultimate stick is better, but steering "feel" maybe suffers a bit.

That said, I really don't have any issue with Roubaix/Arenbergs on LW's.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

KCookie wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:02 pm
With the four sets of Lightweights I've got I've never had that pulsing affect, maybe I'm just lucky with very true wheels, and I've never noticed the tractor like sound when freewheeling. Now you've mentioned it, it's going to be on my mind when out riding today. 😀
Even with the two problems you've mentioned that the Lightweights suffer from, I still bloody love them.
How much experience do you have with other freewheel sounds. My absolute favorite is with the standard Record hubs that you can still buy separately with 32 hole drillings.
For the pulsing... when you're coming to a stop maybe down a hill try to come to a very very gradual stop but with some pressure having to be applied if that makes sense... really testing out the "modulation" term that likes to get thrown around so much. I have 4 sets that I'll be testing out in the next couple weeks, and I'll make note of how many pulse and how many don't. But these looked quite true so I was a bit taken back by how poor the "modulation" was. I define modulation as being able to just put as little or as much pressure as you want, and still maintain completely smooth braking throughout the entire time to stop. Pads touch the rims at exactly the same time.
Oh, and I do get that you love them despite all that... that's ok. We ride what we like.
RyanH wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:13 pm
@Calnago
Try running them with the Campy red pads. I couldn't get the LW pads to stop screaching so I figured I'd try the red pads. Braking felt very similar in feel and power to the Boras.

While on the topic of LW and tire width, I noticed that the LW with 22mm tires feel very nimble so when you're twisting and throwing the bike about, they ebb and flow assuredly through those motions. The Boras with 27mm tires feel out of sync (if you don't have a good rhythm) and sometimes feels like the bike will fold under itself (for lack of a better description) even with high psi.

Do you all think that's more attributable to the LW or the narrow tires?
@RyanH: I'm using the Lightweight pads made for Lightweight by Swissstop. I have no reason to even try the Red Campy pads because these work every bit as good I think. I have no problem with the braking of these pads on these rims, although I've not tried them in the pouring rain. But in dry, it's a tossup. No screeching. In fact, it's a little softer sound than the Campy Reds, but probably the sound is just attributalbe to the grooves in the pads. Both are a very pleasant sound to my ears... that tractor of a freewheel however... nother story.

And yes, the Lightweights are extremely nimble feeling with 22mm tires, as are the Boras. I have some new Boras with 27mm Vlanderens on them and they feel on the big side to me, running at 80psi, which is about where I'd run those on pavement, and they just feel a bit balloony, but they'd be awesome on really bad pavement. I think my preference is for the 25's on the Boras overall, and 23's or 24's on Lightweights or pre 2015 Boras. And if you're going to run 27mm or greater tires in the first place, you certainly shouldn't be pumping them up to super high pressures just to compensate for their "mushiness". They're bigger volume, they're not supposed to be "hard". Pump them up like that and they'll bounce you around like a beach ball, which is excatly that 'hysteresis" effect that started the whole "bigger tire is better" hogwash in the first place. Bigger tires need less pressure, but at some point handling is compromised, or at least it is a very different experience. Comfort goes up for sure, but do you want to be driving a cadillac or a sports car. But that's another topic.
I'm going to swap things around a bit and do some more riding. Oh, I should mention that the Lightweights I've talked about above have the 52mm profile rim, and not the newer 47mm profile.
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glepore
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by glepore

My lightweight standards all have a slight pulse. I agree its unacceptable in a wheelset that is 4k new. At what I bottom feed for, I'll live.

CCU's otoh, while pretty pedestrian comparatively, are completely pulse free. With red pads, pretty sublime, actually.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

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Calnago
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by Calnago

And it's not like you can "true that pulse out". Which brings up the serviceability issue, or lack thereof. I know people like 'em, but let's be honest... it's for the bling as opposed to a lot of the things that really matter in a wheel. And that's not a bad thing. I'd rather ride these any day than something I thought was butt ugly. I couldn't help but take a black and white pic a long time ago when I took a set for a spin on the C59...
Image
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RyanH
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by RyanH

The reason I suggested the Campy pads is that it may eliminate the pulse. My rear LW has a bit of lateral runout and I don't have any pulsing. Pulsing is a pet peeve of mine and a handful of wheelsets have seem the door due to that.

Regarding wider tires, I agree which is why I'm still baffled by the clincher crowd. Here I am finding issue with 27mm Vlaanderen (actual measured) being too squishy at the appropriate low pressure and I see people with 28mm conti clinchers that want to go bigger? Holy crap, 32mm actual is approaching the size limit of CX...

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