Best alloy rims for Tune hubs build?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
dastott
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Many thanks again for all the advice. Taking it onboard I’ll probably: get the Tune hubs built with 38mm Farsports carbon clinchers BUT use the front and back on different bikes. The rear will be for the climbing bike, as originally intended, but the front will be used for the aero bike for when the 60mm front is too much for the wind conditions (which is often). I’ll use a Mavic Ksyrium SLR alloy clincher with latex tubes on the front for the climbing bike, which is currently being used on the aero bike due to the windy conditions. The original purpose of this build is to find a new home for the Tune hubs anyway, and this appears to be the most efficient use of resources.

Just wondering about rim widths now: 21mm or 23mm, will be running Michelin Power Competition in 23mm most probably. Been using the Farsports black pads so far but will also order the Farsports blue ones along with these rims as reports suggest the blues have greater stopping power.

by Weenie


alcatraz
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by alcatraz

I live in a city with coast on three sides and I have never thought my 58mm toroidal rims were too deep. I don't ride without hands on the bars, sure, and if it's windy I keep two hands on. But it's always manageable like this. On top of it all I'm a light guy at 60-65kg.

If it's really windy and the road is tricky I just go a bit slower.

It is a personal preference though. Go with what feels right. I just wanna say that I recommend people with side wind issues to try toroidal rims.

You could do 23 front but at 70kg going less than 25 in the rear is hard to motivate. A 25mm rim works very well with 23C tires and creates a nice shape. I'd use it on the front aswell. :D Toroidal rims are wider in the middle than at the tire so the rim width is bigger for the same internal width. My 28mm wide rims (center) have ~25mm width at the tire interface and a 23C tire is ~25mm and continues the nice oval cross section shape. :thumbup:

/a
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Multebear
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

For farsports rims I’d definitely pick the blue pads. I’ve tried black Prince, yellow king, reynolds blue and chinese blue. The blue ones are far better, both reynolds and chinese. Even descending in the wet works well enough.

If you visit farsports hp and just pick the rims you want, then you write them and they will quote you around 400 US for a pair of rims.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Joejack951 yes the stans are that flexy. I ride on a set of kinlin xr22t rim with a 24 spoke rear and they feel sluggish (flex). I am 84 kg this morning though. A spoke will fail on these.

The Ryde pulse sprint rims were i.k but everyone I bought had impossible tyre fitting unless it was a conti gp4000s II. There may have been other tyres that fitted but no tubeless tyre did. I got one on once and it took an hour to remove it and it did not inflate.

The current ryde rims seem to be a bit better but in the u.k the pulse sprint is absent. I think Ryde are dropping it.

The Mavic open pro UST is now the lightest useable rim on the market.

For 20f24r wheel the kinlin xr31t/RT rims would weigh 980g. Add 220g for cxrays and nipples and 250g for your hubs.

That's 1450g and they will be stiff responsive and they will feel right. Your 1400g clinchers currently are unlikely to perform as well and if they are Shimano c24's they will feel sluggish next to these.
Also thus build is almost aero.

dastott
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:13 am
The Ryde pulse sprint rims were i.k but everyone I bought had impossible tyre fitting unless it was a conti gp4000s II. There may have been other tyres that fitted but no tubeless tyre did. I got one on once and it took an hour to remove it and it did not inflate.

The current ryde rims seem to be a bit better but in the u.k the pulse sprint is absent. I think Ryde are dropping it.

The Mavic open pro UST is now the lightest useable rim on the market.

For 20f24r wheel the kinlin xr31t/RT rims would weigh 980g. Add 220g for cxrays and nipples and 250g for your hubs.

That's 1450g and they will be stiff responsive and they will feel right. Your 1400g clinchers currently are unlikely to perform as well and if they are Shimano c24's they will feel sluggish next to these.
Also thus build is almost aero.
Good info, thanks a lot. I currently have two sets of alloy clinchers Mavic Ksyrium SLR, with exalith coating and a claimed weight of 1355g (probably around 1400g though), and some stock Mavic Ksyrium Elite S, with a claimed weight of 1,550g (but probably closer to 1600g). Both are very solid wheelsets. It seems very difficult to improve on either even with the Tune hubs. Nevertheless, still interested in recycling the Tune hubs into another wheelset.

Multebear
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by Multebear

I agree, that it makes sense to recycle the Tune hubs. They are nice and too expensive to not use.

But if you already own 1355 grams mavics, and a pair of carbon clinchers and you don't want wide wheels, then there are only a few options. The Kinlin XR-200 alloy rims are light and narrow and build into fine wheels. If you'll accept carbon then take a look at these:

http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-228.html

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

Since you already have several light alloy clinchers maybe just keep light carbon tubulars on the tune hubs.

Or look at what kind of wheel you really lack and build that.

I'm aiming to have three wheelsets. Tubular weenie (below 1000gr). 58mm clinchers (1500gr). 80mm+disc wheel(don't ask).

..and two bikes. Weenie climber and flat road aero with clipons.

For the climber sometimes I'll choose weenie wheels and sometimes 58mm. For the flat road sometimes I choose 58mm and sometimes 80+disc.

/a

joejack951
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by joejack951

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:13 am
Joejack951 yes the stans are that flexy. I ride on a set of kinlin xr22t rim with a 24 spoke rear and they feel sluggish (flex). I am 84 kg this morning though. A spoke will fail on these.
70kg vs. 84 kg is a big difference. You are 20% heavier than him and put out who knows how much more power (could be less, I really don't know). Looking at the specs for Stan's 340 rim, I am not seeing how it could be much worse than either an American Classic Sprint 350 or IRD Cadence (old, lighter version @ ~390 grams) rim, both of which I have used while weighing anywhere from 70-82kg and never thought they felt overly flexy, nor did I ever have spoke issues. Granted, those were 32 hole rims and the Cadence rim was the offset (VSR) version but the latter was also used on my commuter which regularly had an extra 5-10kg on a rear rack to support.

If I were the OP, I'd still strongly consider the Stan's rim or any of the light Kinlin offerings. You have other stiffer wheels to use so if these are a bit flexy you can just keep them for days where their pluses outweigh their minuses. At least you'll have built something that meets your intended goals.

dastott
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Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

alcatraz wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:51 am
Since you already have several light alloy clinchers maybe just keep light carbon tubulars on the tune hubs.

Or look at what kind of wheel you really lack and build that.

I'm aiming to have three wheelsets. Tubular weenie (below 1000gr). 58mm clinchers (1500gr). 80mm+disc wheel(don't ask).

..and two bikes. Weenie climber and flat road aero with clipons.

For the climber sometimes I'll choose weenie wheels and sometimes 58mm. For the flat road sometimes I choose 58mm and sometimes 80+disc.

/a
I have a similar set up, which works very well, and lucikly I do have another 980g tubular set with Tune hubs. The 2012 SS Evo climbing bike has 3 wheelsets - 1355g alloy Mavic allrounders, 1550g alloy Mavic for rougher roads and the 980g tubs for hillclimb races and KOM hunting. Also have a cheaper Merida Reacto with clipons running a 105 groupset that has 60mm Farsports clinchers but the 20.5mm narrow V shape which are light (1460g) but do get affected by winds.

The set I will recycle I actually bought used from a user on this site but the tensions on both wheels are terrible, and they have internal nipples. Can salvage the tyres and hubs from them though. Thanks to all the responses to this thread, have realised the wheelset I don't really have is a 38mm 23mm carbon clincher, which will be around 1350g with the Tune hubs. This would allow me to move the 38mm wheels between both bikes without changing brake pads too.

http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-229.html

Of course, as it's WW it's also tempting to go for the 20.5mm version which would be around 1270g but the consensus seems to be that 23mm would be a better all round wheel?

The 24mm 23mm Farsports rim linked before would be even lighter at under 1250g for the build but is there really a benefit to 38mm rims over 24mm rims?

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I built a set for a friend with Mig70/Mag170 hubs 24/28h (we chose this drilling because he's 77-78 kg), and Stan's Alpha 340 (first generation) rims, Sapim CX-Rays, alloy nipples and veloplugs. I think the set came out around 1225 g. The set's use was for the same reason as you mention, for climbing ( and descending :) ) in eastern France, north of Nice, and good braking with alloy tracks. The rear rim failed after 2 years (cracks at spoke holes), after I had to retension twice. We changed it for the next generation rim ( 40 g heavier ) and the wheelset holds fine since then.

For a 20/24, maye consider Alpha 400R/340F.

Louis :)

Multebear
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

dastott wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 am

The 24mm 23mm Farsports rim linked before would be even lighter at under 1250g for the build but is there really a benefit to 38mm rims over 24mm rims?
38 mm clinchers from farsports are my main wheelset. And I'm very happy with them. Very good all rounders. But I'm significantly heavier than you at 90 kg. I do all kind of rides on them. But my 50 mm are very good as well. Especially for everything above 35 kph.

If you want light, there is a small advantage with the shallower 24 x 23 mm over the 38 mm, and when doing small accellerations I think you you'd be able to feel the difference. But they are obviously not more aero than the 38 mm ones. So they would mostly be for climbing and maybe also for technical crits with lots of accellerations.

dastott
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Thanks for all the replies. After some consideration, strongly considering DT Swiss RR411 rims, symmetric on the front and assymetric on the back. Will build to 1400g it seems. Really like the look of the red DT Swiss Aerolite bladed spokes (20F/24R) but cannot find an online spoke calculator that features Tune Mig70 Front hub and Tune Mag170 Rear hub. A novice builder here. Any suggestions would be very welcome.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Joe Jack some of the riders I build for are hense I now assume everyone is harsh on wheels regardless of there weight. The Stans rims really are that bad. They caNt even retain a tubeless tyre at zero pressure. There is really no point in there existence.

My experience is with thousands of wheels built for lots of riders. I no longer count. I have a instinct now for what works well and what does not. You need to understand a 70kg rider can load a wheel more than I do simply by riding style.

The rule of thumb is the stiffer the wheel the better. The mistake light folk make is that they believe that they need wheels that are less stiff. That's wrong. Lighter wheels may work better for you but not less stiff ones.

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howler
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by howler

Q for the more wheeluminated here- why go for a deeper/heavier rim for this build (e.g. xr31t) rather than one of the shallower/lighter, but still robust options (e.g. xr22, easton sl90r- not stans 340). Are there likely to be any noticable differences in feel/stiffness between the two?

by Weenie


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