Best alloy rims for Tune hubs build?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Hi, looking for some advice. I have some Tune hubs currently laced to some tubular climbing wheels which I will get rebuilt into a lightweight clincher wheel set, and am wondering what rims to get. The LBS recommends Stan’s 340 over Kinlin rims but I have read mixed reviews. I am 70kgs and the hubs are 20/24H and I plan to run them as normal clinchers not tubeless. I do have some deep carbon clinchers already but prefer the braking on aluminum rims, especially as these wheels will be primarily used in the mountains.

No target weight in mind but around 1300g would be good. The tyres will be Michelin Competition, possibly with latex tubes.

They will be used on a 2012 Super Six Evo so wide rims are not really an option. Thanks for any help.

alcatraz
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

One thing worth considering is the total weight of tire and rim.

For a light rim with narrow inner width a tire becomes very narrow. 23s will be maybe 22-23mm wide. A 40-50gr heavier 25c tire will be 24-25mm wide.

On a wider rim a 23 could be 25mm wide without any weight penalty.

So to sum it up. A 25mm wide rim with a 20gr weight penalty is "lighter" than a 20mm rim @0gr penalty but with 40-50gr penalty tires.

Furthermore, even shallow rims have some aero gains if rims are of similar width to the tires.

If you are a lighter rider and don't ride in the wet I'd recommend 38mm carbon clinchers. The stiffness makes for a nice ride and build. Alloy flexes and loses it's roundness after a while. Difficult to true. (I like alloy braking performance and heat dissipation too, wish I could have it all. :))

/a

by Weenie


dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Thanks for the insight. Yes, I will probably run 23mm Michelin Power Competition tyres on them. I am 70kgs and mostly climb in the saddle but would be happy to sacrifice a little weight for stiffness and strength. I have owned a few carbon wheelsets (sub 1000g shallow tubs, 50mm clinchers and 60mm clinchers) but each set has had issues of some sort. Not ruling out 38mm clinchers for this build but alloy would be my first choice.

Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

I'd look at the Kinlin selection. There are rims from just under 400 grams and all the way up. All of their rims are well build and have a good reputation. The lightest rims aren't wide, but that's because it's hard to build light and wide rims.

Your hubs are around 250 grams, spokes and nipples will be around 220 grams. That leaves you with 830 grams between two rims. That's 415 grams pr. rim. Not a lot of rims to choose from in that range. Kinlin only have xr200 and xr-19 below that limit. Stans 340 are ok, but they are almost too lightweight. The braketrack is thin and I'm pretty sure the wheel will be very flexy.

You might want to add 80 grams to the wheels and expand your options significantly.

NovemberDave
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by NovemberDave

I'd have a look at offset rims. Tunes don't love spoke tension, so they do well with offset rims. Many of the Kinlin rims are available offset, some DTs are, etc. In my opinion, I think a 20/24 Tune build on Stan's 340s would be an unattractive build. The rims are really flimsy and the spoke tension drop is fairly large once you install a tire. I think you'd have problems with them. We haven't sold any 340s for a while (they're out of favor for anything but real "I want to hit a weight target" builds) but when we did we wouldn't do less than a 28h rear.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

In that drilling I would not use the kinlin xr220or than stans 340 because the resulting wheel will give spokes issues for most 70kg riders given time and the rear wheel will feel sluggish as it lacks stiffness.

Use a heavier rim on the rear like the kinlin xr 26t or the 31t which come in offset for the rear or the pacenti Forza. Forget your weight goal if you try to stick to it you will have wheel that are light but feel rubbish. A heavier wheel will be nicer to ride in the spoke count.

Use a lighter on on the front. That will help keep the weight down.

alcatraz
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Speed vs weight, what is your first priority?

A flexy wheel is not fast. The rear has a lot of torque to deal with so you might want to make sure you got a good total spoke tension there without busting the hub.

Maybe alloy on the front and carbon on the rear. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's quite genius.

/a

dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Many thanks for the expert opinions. Very much appreciated. These wheels will only be ridden in the dry and in the summer months. Have some heavier Mavics for winter rides.

Yes, had considered different rims front and back, and am happy to go over 1300g to get a stiff and durable wheelset, considering the 20/24 drilling. Wouldn’t really want to go much over 1400g though as I already have some other alloy clinchers of a similar weight.

Have had good experiences with Mavic clinchers so am very interested in the new Open Pro but the width, the iniststence that owners run tubeless and the low official tyre pressure limit all put me off somewhat. Does anyone have experience with the Ryde Pulse Sprint? Very aesthetically pleasing and pretty light. Am wondering about durability and brake track strength?

dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:43 am
Speed vs weight, what is your first priority?

A flexy wheel is not fast. The rear has a lot of torque to deal with so you might want to make sure you got a good total spoke tension there without busting the hub.

Maybe alloy on the front and carbon on the rear. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's quite genius.

/a
Yes, had considered getting a carbon Farsports 38mm rim for the rear and an alloy rim for the front also. But I would definitely need a black alloy rim for the front in that case!

Speed and stiffness is a priority because the wheelset will be used for up down courses with steep climbs and descents.

Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

Mavic open pro is not an option for the front rim. They only come in 32/28/24 spoke hole drillings.

Ryde Pulse Sprint have some issues. Don’t remember what kind. But Bm0p700 has mentioned them somewhere. He’ll probably elaborate in a minute....

If you can tolerante a weight at around 1380-1400 complete, lot of nice options out there. The kinlin XR22/26 have a very good reputation. HED belgium + for the expensive but really nice option. Boyd Altamonts, Pacenti Forza.

Honestly IMHO 20/24 is more suited for carbon wheels. If you’d had 24/28 all options would have been open, even reasonably light wheels as well. But now we’re here, and I’d probably pick a Kinlin rim, if I were you.

alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

How about shallow-ish carbon rims with an alloy brake track.

You could go alloy track on the front and have it optional on the rear.

Sure the rims aren't super light but you can save a little weight on spokes and alloy nipples. With even tensioned spokes the risk of overloading one is reduced.

My budget full carbon 58mm high 28mm wide build came in at 1500gr. You should be able to do 1400 with one alloy brake track and up to 38mm tall rims. Sapim CX-ray, CNspoke mac aero424, Pillar 1420 are all popular lightweight spokes. Get the lengths right and you can save weight with alloy nipples. 30gr can be saved by using veloplugs instead of rim tape.

Just brainstorming here.

/a

joejack951
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Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

bm0p700f wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:33 am
In that drilling I would not use the kinlin xr220or than stans 340 because the resulting wheel will give spokes issues for most 70kg riders given time and the rear wheel will feel sluggish as it lacks stiffness.
70kg riders are not generally considered harsh on wheels. Are the Stans 340 rims really that flimsy?

dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Many thanks again. I have really learned a lot. It seems that Farsports 38mm carbon clincher rims might be my best option, although I will have to experiment with brake pads on the Farsports tubs and 60mm clinchers I already have. The supplied pads are OK but braking is never as good as on my Mavic alloy clinchers.

One more question: would going 21 mm wide on the front and 23mm wide on the back be a good option, considering the old Super Six Evo's clearance issues? Rims here: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 23634.html

dastott
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:48 pm
You should be able to do 1400 with one alloy brake track and up to 38mm tall rims. Sapim CX-ray, CNspoke mac aero424, Pillar 1420 are all popular lightweight spokes. Get the lengths right and you can save weight with alloy nipples. 30gr can be saved by using veloplugs instead of rim tape.
Yes, already use red veloplugs on my 60mm clinchers. Are there any budget friendly carbon clinchers rims with alloy brake track you can recommend? Probably for the front only.

alcatraz
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I checked around quickly here on chinese "ebay" but I couldn't find anything great. Seems there aren't any like the HED Jet which should be full carbon with two alloy strips. (Chinese riders are mostly light so they go full carbon, or they just go with what their buddies have :lol:)

The ones I found are more 50/50 where the bridge between the brake walls is all one piece alloy. At 25mm it's nearly 600gr and 23mm width ~520gr. Not weight weenie...

You can probably find some other kinds on aliexpress.

The front wheel might not need the same stiffness as the rear. You could go alpha340 on the front although the aero benefit is mostly lost. Rear is a no-no.

23mm wide 38mm deep carbon w. alloy brake track on the front @500gr could be possible and possibly 420gr full carbon 38mm deep _25mm_ wide in the rear. Not bad @ ~920gr.

What would please me if I were in your shoes is if the rims could have a modern toroidal cross section. That way they would be killer allrounders, good in side winds and medium speed descents and flats. All while maintaining good power transfer and low weight. (Seems there is not much choice though. Need to hunt :))

/a
Last edited by alcatraz on Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


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