Clinchers in general more expensive

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Boshk
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by Boshk

Was looking at a set of Campagnolo Bora One 35s, maybe red label for my black/green C60.

Got all excited when one shop quoted me around 1300US, but then he said it was for tubular. Clincher price another $370 more.

Why is that? More tech? More carbon?
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Well, clinchers are harder to make safe for sure. But that aside, the pricing decision is probably more a function of charging what the market will bear than any cost of productions issues. There's a lot more carbon clinchers being sold than tubulars. Pricing, of anything, is only related to cost of production to the extent that in the long run it has to be high enough to cover all costs associated with the product, including overheads.

Clinchers/Tubulars 101:
As for the actual production of carbon clinchers versus a tubular, clinchers have two high sidewalls that have to retain the outward pressure of clincher beads that are constantly tring to blow those two walls apart. That is the main difference. Resins have to be able to withstand the heat generated from braking, otherwise the sidewalls could soften and be blown apart by the beads of the clincher and the clincher could blow right off the rim. Some resins withstand heat better than others.
A tubular has no high sidewalls to blow apart. Just the rim bed that the tubular tire sits on. And the tubular tire itself is all self contained within the tire casing. The only forces the rim receives from the tire is a downard pressure on the rim bed from inflation, which is actually a good thing. And the heat, while also being generated on a carbon tubular braking surface, just isn't as much of a factor since there is no force trying to blow the sidewalls apart (also, no sidewalls to blow apart).
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fluffandstuff
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by fluffandstuff

I recently bought the bora clinchers from wiggle, they were 30% more expensive than the tubulars. Apart from production cost, I also think clinchers have higher resale value, quick ebay search you can find clinchers are priced higher and are often not available.


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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The carbon clinchers I buy as rims are 25% more expensive than the tubular rims.

Boshk
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by Boshk

Thanks, so why does everyone go tubular?

I can partly understand why people go tubular in places like Hong Kong/cities where you just jump into a taxi if you get 'unpairable' punctures but for guys who do 100-500kms into open countrysides/deserts/outback.......surely spare inner tube & repairs patches would be better?

Weight wise....totally understand, tubular is lighter, no hand pump to carry, no spare inner tube to carry.
Preventative Sealant....is that 100% guarantee though against punctures?
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jlok
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by jlok

weight is top consideration, and when it's cheaper than clincher then it's no brainer here in ww.
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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

Luck/weight/rubber-compound/patience/location/ridingstyle...

It's a mix of reasons that decide.

If you never puncture there is little reason to go with clinchers.

/a

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 am
Luck/weight/rubber-compound/patience/location/ridingstyle...

It's a mix of reasons that decide.

If you never puncture there is little reason to go with clinchers.

/a

The fastest tires on BRR’s drum are Vittoria Corsa Speed TLRs. 1.4W less rolling resistance per tire. That doesn’t include reduced aero drag from squared off sidewalls on internally wide rims, but let’s assume a total effective gain of 3W just because it’s the closest whole number. 3W vs maybe 300g is an obvious choice on flatter ground, but it’s also better in any climbing situation.

Example from Bike Calculator using my own weight (+bike +shoes/helmet/kit) as an example. 8% grade, 5km distance

275w 71kg system weight = 21:06
278w 71.3kg system weight = 19:59

Unless you are a child and weigh 30kg, losing 300g is not worth also losing 3w. Vittoria Corsa Speed TLRs cost $53 on Starbike while the Corsa Speed Tubulars cost $86. Tubeless clinchers are far more resistant to flats and repairable with DynaPlugs or “worms”

The dealbreaker for rim-brake carbon clinchers is braking related structural failure. If resins hit or routinely almost reach glass temps, delamination or catastrophic failure can occur. If I rode the combination of rim-brake and carbon wheels, I guess I'd be on tubulars. Instead I abandoned rim-brake bikes altogether and switched to disc.

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:57 am
Example from Bike Calculator using my own weight (+bike +shoes/helmet/kit) as an example. 8% grade, 5km distance

275w 71kg system weight = 21:06
278w 71.3kg system weight = 19:59
5.6% increase in speed from 1.1% increase in power? Not too bloody likely. And that's not even counting the increase in weight, which further adds to the implausibility. Maybe you made a transcription error and the times are only 7 sec apart, not 67 sec apart?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

HammerTime2 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:33 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:57 am
Example from Bike Calculator using my own weight (+bike +shoes/helmet/kit) as an example. 8% grade, 5km distance

275w 71kg system weight = 21:06
278w 71.3kg system weight = 19:59
5.6% increase in speed from 1.1% increase in power? Not too bloody likely. And that's not even counting the increase in weight, which further adds to the implausibility. Maybe you made a transcription error and the times are only 7 sec apart, not 67 sec apart?

Oops, correct. I meant to type 20:06 for the first time. Anyway an increase in w/kg will always result in a faster time up a hill, so rider+equipment would need to be ~27kg for the second time to be faster than the first.

wingguy
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by wingguy

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:19 pm
Oops, correct. I meant to type 20:06 for the first time. Anyway an increase in w/kg will always result in a faster time up a hill, so rider+equipment would need to be ~27kg for the second time to be faster than the first.
And we should assume you meant to type 72 this time? :P

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wingguy wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:49 am

And we should assume you meant to type 72 this time? :P
No, that 27 is actually correct. 27.5/.3kg is the same ratio as 275/3w. In order for .3kg to make more of an impact than 3w, the system weight has to be that light!

joejack951
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by joejack951

Those 3w are at like 30mph, right? You won’t be giving up nearly that much power up an 8% grade as your speed will be far less.

basilic
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by basilic

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:36 pm
Those 3w are at like 30mph, right? You won’t be giving up nearly that much power up an 8% grade as your speed will be far less.
Joejack, agreed, but how about lets not feed the tobin?
He turns every thread, be it the cost of clinchers, Sagan's bike, you name it, into the gospel of the tubeless clincher. I think everyone got the message...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Basilic... we need more pics from you in the "On The Road Today" thread, I always look forward to your seasonal pics of the same roads you rode last year, and the year before. But they're just as welcome each year... keeps us in synch. Between you and @Kingtom, I think half the forum would move to Switzerland if they could thanks to the pics we see from there. It's hard to ruin a thread like that. I will try to post more ride pics this year as well, since I don't have any personal "superbuilds" planned.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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