Why would any one would like road tubeless tires, after installing one :-)

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

What width are those 220g Hutchinson in. I want to try them out and see how they fair as race day tyres. They could be good for that.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:19 pm
What width are those 220g Hutchinson in. I want to try them out and see how they fair as race day tyres. They could be good for that.

25mm Fusion 5 Galactik 11Storm TLR = ~220g. It's a fairly narrow 25mm tire and should only measure 26.5mm on 19mm internal width rims.

Make sure you get the TLR version and not the "Tubeless" version. I weighed the latter in 25mm at a whopping 294g.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 am
A trick I use to get a difficult bead over the rim edge is to get as much
as possible of the already installed bead in the depest groove of the rim. This is usually in the middle of the rim and it maximizes the slack for the last part to slip over.

I rarely even use tire levers anymore after learning this. Both to mount and remove tires. Thumbs are enough and they are not close to bleeding afterwards. :thumbup:

Soap is for when you inflate a tubeless tire, not getting it on the rim.

/a
+1 me on this one as well. When getting the second bead over the rim I'll kinda fold it over the sidewall torward the side I'm trying to get on. This forces the side that's already on out of the channel and the side I'm trying to get on into the channel.

I have 4 sets of tubeless wheels between two bikes and have been running road tubeless for about 10 years. The wheels that are the biggest PITA are actually my first set of tubeless wheels, my old Shimano 6700s. I have to use levers for both sides to get tires on these. All of the wheels I have that actually require tape go on pretty easily.
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by Geoff

Yes, the instalation can be tricky. The problem is that there are no real 'specs' for the tires or the rims and the resultant range is comparitively large. As a result, if you get a tire that is on the 'small' side of that spec and a rim that is on the 'large' side, you will hace more problems than with the reverse.

I have a few sets going now. The 'trick' is to test-fit the tire to the rim and experiment with the placement of the first bead. I have found that it very much matters how you approach that install.

By their very nature, road tubeless beads cannot be stretched. If they could be, they would blow-off your rim by themselves. Counterintuitively, you need to start opposite from the valve stem and finish at the stem. You really need that small circumfrential difference in order to install a tire/rim combo at the extremes of the spec. Also, with respect to the other posters, I find that a little soapy water really helps with the installation. I am informed that one manufacturer even offes a 'rim instalation fluid' for the purpose, but I have never checked-in to that. If you so it that way, you should be able to install almost any extremes of rim/tire by hand (which I would strongly recommend to protect the rim bead).

Almost forgot the OP: the reason for using road tubeless is that it really works for training. In fact, I think it might be the ultimate 'travel' set-up for camps, etc. Just pump-and-go, without having to worry about getting strandeson unfamilliar roads.

2old4this
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by 2old4this

Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
The 'trick' is to test-fit the tire to the rim and experiment with the placement of the first bead.
This makes sense. I should have done this...
Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
Almost forgot the OP: the reason for using road tubeless is that it really works for training. In fact, I think it might be the ultimate 'travel' set-up for camps, etc. Just pump-and-go, without having to worry about getting strandeson unfamilliar roads.
You've lost me on this one. I really can't imagine having a flat on the road and installing a new one (or even putting an inner tube on.) Yes, the sealant "should" plug most of the small holes but what if it is a big cut??? :noidea:

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by dim

2old4this wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm
Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
The 'trick' is to test-fit the tire to the rim and experiment with the placement of the first bead.
This makes sense. I should have done this...
Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
Almost forgot the OP: the reason for using road tubeless is that it really works for training. In fact, I think it might be the ultimate 'travel' set-up for camps, etc. Just pump-and-go, without having to worry about getting strandeson unfamilliar roads.
You've lost me on this one. I really can't imagine having a flat on the road and installing a new one (or even putting an inner tube on.) Yes, the sealant "should" plug most of the small holes but what if it is a big cut??? :noidea:
then you use a tyre worm .... takes a minute

what do you do when your Continental GP 4000 SII clincher tyre gets a sidewall cut? (which happens often)
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Geoff
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by Geoff

+1. I guess I am speaking of the 'normal' punctures, i.e., stuff that is too small for me to see. In my own experience, if it is big enough to take a big hack out of my tire, I tend not to hit it. For sure, it depends upon the local conditions you ride in. From here, we will go to AZ or CA for camps, the road conditions there are pretty good, compared to here.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

2old4this wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm
Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
The 'trick' is to test-fit the tire to the rim and experiment with the placement of the first bead.
This makes sense. I should have done this...
Geoff wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm
Almost forgot the OP: the reason for using road tubeless is that it really works for training. In fact, I think it might be the ultimate 'travel' set-up for camps, etc. Just pump-and-go, without having to worry about getting strandeson unfamilliar roads.
You've lost me on this one. I really can't imagine having a flat on the road and installing a new one (or even putting an inner tube on.) Yes, the sealant "should" plug most of the small holes but what if it is a big cut??? :noidea:
If you get a big cut, you are stranded. A worm won't fix it. And most likely, neither will a "boot", because air will still escape since it's not likely you're going to be able to "glue" a boot to a sealant covered inner tire surface. With a normal clincher/tube setup you can easily fashion a "boot" out of a dollar bill ($20 if you want added insurance). Just insert a new tube and you're off. On the road, while small cuts are common, really big gashes are not. They just aren't. Offroad may be different, especially in areas of sharp rocks and shale etc. But on the road, I can't remember the last time someone had a gash so big they were stranded. Stick a boot in, a new inntertube, and you're good to go.
Now what's really entertaining is watching someone trying to get a normal innertube into their sealant filled tubeless tire which no amount of worming etc would seal up. Or they just can't get the tire to reseat itself after losing too much air and unseating. And they end up borrwoing an innertube from someone else, because they couldn't fathom how their tubeless setups could ever possibly need one. Then there's part two of this process when they get home and pull out the sealant coated innertube they just put in and try to right things. While the guy who inserted his new inner tube in a normal clincher on the road is all done. No muss, no fuss.
I run tubulars, and carry some sealant for the rare occasion I do flat. It's pretty painless. I don't add it preemptively but only after I puncture. But just in case, I always have a spare tubular with me as well for, the inevitable time that sealant won't work. It just makes sense. Same as it would for someone riding a tubeless setup, but then if you're carrying a spare innertube anyway, what's the point, except that you may get away with more flats in between having to use the spare tube than you would otherwise, so I can see that at least.
To each his own, but on balance, I just don't get the whole tubeless thing for the road.
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2old4this
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by 2old4this

+1 on Colnago.
On almost any ride, I carry a spare tire (C or T.) With clincher, change the tire, or change the inner tube, or patch it. With the tubular, I can put the spare tire on with a little struggle. Or with sealant, I can pump the wheel up to 60psi. In either case, I can get back to civilization.
My initial impressions on putting one (and only one) tubeless tire have not been positive. Moreover, it looks like I have to carry an inner tube, worm, sealant, and patch (no point in carrying a spare tire, IMO. I do not know how to put one on and inflate it easily, in the middle of nowhere.) If I have to carry all that, why don't I use a clincher anyways?
I can see mountain tubeless. But for me, for the time being, I am at a loss on using tubeless on the road (until the build is done and the I give it a try, anyways...)

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by TobinHatesYou

Calnago wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
except that you may get away with more flats in between having to use the spare tube than you would otherwise, so I can see that at least.
I used to flat once every 1-2months with regular tubetype tires...more when the tire nears the end of its tread life. I now flat maybe once or twice a year and those flats are almost always taken care of by a DynaPlug. I'm sure others have consistent experiences with mine.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

turlutu wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:01 pm
Tubeless tires installation is a tricky debate

So much depends from the combo tire - rims used
So over simplification is not a good idea

I've had luck with pro one and VENN 35 TCD rim 19mm internal et 27mm external
I've tried hutchinson fusion from a friend they were impossible to sit on the rim nearly ...
Exactly correct. I've had no serious issues with getting Schwalbe Pro One's and Panaracer Evo3 Race A Tubeless onto DT Swiss RR21 dicut, but that doesn't mean much considering the hundreds or thousands of combos there probably are!

Problem is they need real standards like Mavic and others do with UST. The temptation is to make a smaller tire diameter for safety, but then people might end up breaking their thumbs or tire levers. :(

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by jasonh

I ran tubeless for about five years using Eurus 2 way fits. Mostly with Hutchinson fusions w I liked the puncture protection but the ride quality was lacking and wet traction was poor. The rear would square off in less than 1k miles so I would swap rear to front and ride them for another 600-800 miles for the set. The last set Fusions didn’t want to reseal roadside and I switched to Maxxis Padrones which installed slightly easier, felt better on the road, had much better grip and lasted much longer. I flatted on a scorching hot summer day, the sealant was a disastrous mess. I wasted a co2 cartridge bc the bead didn’t seat then it was VERY difficult to pull the tubeless valve then very very hard to get the bead back on the rim.
Then my spent cartridge continued to rattle in my pockets while riding home. That was it for me.
The reduced weight of nice clinchers vs tubeless tires combined with far nicer road feel and far quicker
roadside repairs of swapping an inner tube is my preference for paved roads.
I’m strongly considering tubulars because I love nice riding and light wheels

2old4this
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by 2old4this

Tubular+Continental Competitions (if you are not doing gravel) is what I have on most of my bikes now.
I'll give a try to the tubeless install again when I receive the tire (I used the two I've got to install just the rear.) We'll see how it goes...

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

A worm can fix a big cut. 3.5mm maxalami worms for example. If it really big use two. There is bogus info out there. Worms fails because thehole is too big for the small worms most carry or they are not installed right. I have a new video to show you all how. If its a big slash a big 3.5mm owrm has fixed a 1cm gash that held 80 psi without drama. A 2cm gash would take two big worms and I would inflate to a low pressure to get me home. What really amusing and sad at the same time is seeing people stuggle with tubeless because they dont know what they are doing and seeing folk who should know advise them badly.

Try other tyres. Hutchinson's new storm11 compound seems to provide decent wet grip (almost as good as the IRC's) so all is not lost jasonh. The pardones need testing properly but they seems much like the IRC roadlite which means they are pretty good.. also you went out with tyre worms and your blaming tubeless tyre tech for your issue. If you ride with plugs it like using clinchers but not carrying spare tubes. Please dont complain about tubeless fails if your are not equiped.
The hutchinsons/mavics still wear quickly, IRC's don't.

You dont have to carry a inner tube. Carry this https://www.velodistribution.co.uk/prod ... pair-tube/ I had Maxalami make these up as it solves the tubeless repair problem oif knowing what to carry.

Merlin cycles have started buying them although I had to inform them this morning that they have used the wrong picture and the wrong text.
https://www.merlincycles.com/maxalami-r ... 10339.html

If you have both sizes of worms then you can fix almost everything bar a tyre that is properly F*****. If that the case your screwed on a tub or clincher without a spare tyre. Spot worring folks. If your tubeless tyres cut to easily dont worry the worms will sort you out and if that bothers you use a tougher tyre.

There are tubeless standard, Mavic, IRC, Velocity and Kinlin have worked it out. Schwalbe tyres are properly sized too. Shimano wheels are well sized too.

If you are using tubeless tyres carry worms. If you don't and have an issue dont complain suck it up learn the lesson and carry worms in future. If your tubeless tyre does not lock into the rim bead then need to sort that out as that is a problem.

Tubeless tyres should be tight to fit (mavic yskion tyres are not hand fit on the rims I use) . If they can be mounted by hand they are too loose in my book and bead stretch may cause problems down the line. Good levers like IRC dont break. Use soapy water as it makes it alot easier to chase the tyre slack round the rim which stops the lever eroding or breaking (lesser levers still break though). you all do chase the slack round the rim don't you if you don't you should as it makes installing tubeless, tubed clincher and tubular tyres alot easier.
The soapy water then helps the inflation too. I do this for a living and have fitted more tubeless tyres than most of you here. Tubeless fails are user error learn and adapt.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

also the lotcite flexible superglue trick is one way of keeping worms in place. I could have done that yesterday with a IRC tyre to keep the big worm in place at high pressure but as they tyre had 14000km on it and had a bulge (too many holes in the uk now) and numerous cuts plus the rubber had started to detiorate I just fitted a new tyre.

In my back pocket there are worms and flexible superglue. the two together get you out of trouble. Simple tricks so rarely used though.

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