Bora one 35 vs. 50; keep or change?

[pafori]

Keep the 35's, and buy a set of 50's.

+1. I have the 50's and I just pulled the trigger on a set of the 35's. We have some windy days here and I need a shallower rim for those days. And I'm thinking of mixing the 35's and the 50's like what Enve does to their wheels. Shallower up front and deeper in the rear.

I do a lot of climbing here in LA, mostly in the San Gabriel Mountains, and found the combination of rim brakes and Campy Bora Ultra 50s to be less assured than I would like in winding high-speed mountain descents with crosswinds. I have since replaced by Boras with Shamals ... much better. I also picked up a disc brake bike that came stock with an alloy DT Swiss wheelset that is pretty decent. However, I'm tempted to upgrade my disc brake bike wheelset to Campy Bora One 35s. Seeing you have/had 50s and were thinking of 35s, wondered if you ever bought the 35s, and if so, what your experience has been on windy, winding high-speed descents. Thanks!

[pdlpsher1]

Yes I did get a pair of the 35s. Because I’m lazy I don’t switch wheels based on terrain or weather on a daily basis. We don’t have windy days in the summer. So I keep the 50s on during the summer, even on rides with a lot of climbing. I switch to the 35s in Oct because the chance for wind is much higher from Oct to Apr.

As for the difference between the two, I do find the 35s much better in the cross winds. BUT because I weigh 62kg I still get blown around even with the 35s. I have witnessed heavier riders who were riding upright while I’m leaning quite a bit to counter the wind, not because the 35s are catching the wind but because I just lack the mass needed to counteract the wind. So depending on your weight you might find the 35s to be perfectly stable in cross winds, or somewhat still inadequate if you weigh the same or less than me. I debated on a pair of the Fulcrum Zero Carbons which has a shallower profile than the 35s. But I’m greedy for extra speed and I do believe the 35s to be much more aero than the Zero Carbons due to 35s having thinner spokes. If your ultimate goal is cross wind stability above speed then perhaps you need something shallower than the 35s.

When climbing I can’t really tell any difference between the 50s and 35s. But oddly I also find the 35s to be more confidence inspiring on twisty descends. My theory is that the 35s communicate road feel better. The 50s insulate you from the road more. Despite this I still prefer to climb with the 50s because I believe aero trumps weight on anything less than a 6% grade. I got the 35s for cross wind stability sake and not for going faster on climbs.


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[sawyer]

I've got both the 35s and the 50s, and an old pair of the narrow 50s

Interestingly I recently picked up a zet of 303 Firecrests. Have to say there is some truth in Zipp's marketing regarding less torque steer from the wider rim catching the wind less. No question the 303s (45mm rim) catch the wind a lot less than the current shape Bora 50s. And tbh my impression is they catch the wind a bit less than the current shape Bora 35s also, though I need to ride back to back more to check that one.

In most other respects it's a tie, though I would give the edge to Boras on braking performance, and to the Bora 50s vs 303s on stiffness - though not by much.

[pdlpsher1]

No doubt the 303s will catch less wind than the 50s. The 303 has a 5mm shallower depth. It would be more interesting to compare the 303s to the 35s. It would be surprising if the 303s are better than the 35s due to 303s having an extra 10mm more depth.


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[pafori]

Really appreciate all of the input. Agree that the 50s are awesome climbers, stiff, super responsive. I'm 76 kg, 6'1", and part of the lack of assurance on descents was inexperience, part was the Bora 50s profile and part was rim brakes with carbon wheels during descents up to 5K feet. Given I now mostly use my Canyon Ultimate disc for climbing, I think Bora One 35s are the way to go. I almost pulled the trigger on a used pair of Zipp 202 NSW disc wheelset, but decided not to. I hear mixed reviews on the hub and comments about flexing. The Campy ceramic are my favorite of the hubs I've tried (although really like the DT Swiss hubs on my stock alloy wheels and HED Jet Black hubs, too, for my TT bike). The downside of the Campys is that they aren't tubeless ready. Any thoughts on tubeless and lots of climbing? I've done about 360,000 feet this year and I hear more about the benefits of tubeless regarding pinch flats ... rather than tubeless being faster uphill. Any thoughts on other recommended very light climbing disc wheels?

[pdlpsher1]

This would be an excellent choice for you. Campy USB hubs and tubeless compatibility if you desire to go tubeless at some point.

https://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/wheel ... -carbon-db


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[sawyer]

No doubt the 303s will catch less wind than the 50s. The 303 has a 5mm shallower depth. It would be more interesting to compare the 303s to the 35s. It would be surprising if the 303s are better than the 35s due to 303s having an extra 10mm more depth.


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HI - I will do more "testing" but my initial impression is the 303s catch the wind less than the 35s. I also have a pair of Fulcrum Quattro Carbons (40mm depth, same 24.2mm outer width as Boras) ... no quesiton at all that the 303s are much less buffeted by winds than the Quattros.

So my point is the Zipp "hype" about stability from their rims isn't hype

All up I still prefer Boras tbh

[pafori]

This would be an excellent choice for you. Campy USB hubs and tubeless compatibility if you desire to go tubeless at some point.

https://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/wheel ... -carbon-db


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Nice option. Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon DB checks all the boxes ... appears to be a very recent release and may be a bit before they're widely avaiable. Thanks!

[pafori]

No doubt the 303s will catch less wind than the 50s. The 303 has a 5mm shallower depth. It would be more interesting to compare the 303s to the 35s. It would be surprising if the 303s are better than the 35s due to 303s having an extra 10mm more depth.


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HI - I will do more "testing" but my initial impression is the 303s catch the wind less than the 35s. I also have a pair of Fulcrum Quattro Carbons (40mm depth, same 24.2mm outer width as Boras) ... no quesiton at all that the 303s are much less buffeted by winds than the Quattros.

So my point is the Zipp "hype" about stability from their rims isn't hype

All up I still prefer Boras tbh

I believe it -- that Zipps handle wind better than the Boras. I have HED Jet Black 9s on my TT bike and haven't had issues with wind, albeit I'm using them in the flats where cross-winds have different implications.

Still, for all arounders, particularly with lots of climbing, it's tough to go against Boras, while imperfect in the wind, they do so much so well! Thanks for doing the 'testing', will be curious to hear further thoughts ...

[sawyer]

Yes, just because of how my wheelery has panned out over the past 2 years or so I'm probably one of the few to have owned and put several thousand KM on each of old Bora 50s, new Bora 50s, new Bora 35s, Zipp 303 FCs, and Fulcrum Quattro Carbons ... with various sets of tyres over varied terrain

Of all of those my favourite is the new Bora 50s. They don't feel any heavier than the 35s to me, and feel a touch stiffer out back, and in your mind when hammering it is that that they are a touch more aero.

But it's really close between them, the 35s and 303s. All good choices. at 76kg I don't notice a shortage of stiffness in the rear 303 (whatever Tour says!). It's pretty decent and similar feeling to Boras.

Hubs are great on all those so far.

The main differences ... braking is a touch better on the Boras (50s and 35s) vs the 303s. The 303s counter with really quite a lot better crosswind stability. In fact I would rate the 303s above even the Bora 35s in that respect. The wider rim works.

Slightly off the pace are the Fulcrums. Decent wheels with a really nice rim, decent stiffness, and Bora standard braking, but somehow I feel the cartridge hubs just aren't as free spinning. Someone will come along with a lecture on bearings under load, but whatever, there is more drag in the stand it feels like less free speed on the road. Crazy I know.