Fast, Light All Rounder Disc Wheel

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Hesitating between the Enve 5.6 disc and the Roval CLX 50 Disc to fit to an Aeroad.

Weights are similar (maybe a 100 g advantage for the CLX) and I suspect Aero performance would also be too close to call. Price is the same.

I've had positive experiences with Enve before, other than durability of the alloy freehub body that gets scored by the Shimano cassette.

CLX is wider internally (21mm vs 19); not sure if this could cause tire clearance issues with wide 28 mm Conti's. If so, that'd be reason enough for me to pick the Enves?

Any experiences worth sharing?

cassard
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:31 am

by cassard

I would go for 4.5 AR Disc instead of the 5.6. 25mm internal 31mm external.
Optimized for 28mm, Almost as light as the CLX. More aero to same.

emotive
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

28mm Contis on Enve 5.6 rim with 19C internal will measure 31mm wide.
28mm Contis on a Roval CLX rim with 21C internal will measure 32mm wide.

Both of these will see the tyre wider than the wheel, and not provide an aero transition to the wheel. If you want an aero transition with the above wheels, consider using the 25mm GP4000, which will measure up at 28mm and 29mm on the above rims.

If comfort and straight line speed are a higher priority than aero, stay with the 28mm tyre size and look to the Enve 4.5 AR as Cassard recommends. But the GP4000's will measure up at 34mm wide on the 4.5ARs, so really too wide for the 31mm wheel width to provide a good aero transition. Consider a 28mm tyre which runs narrower, so it measures up at 31mm to match the rim. Also, due to the hookless bead design of the 4.5 AR's, Enve recommend only using tubeless tyres, such as Schwalbe Pro One, whether you use a tube or not.

cassard
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:31 am

by cassard

4.5 ar disc are aerodynamically optimized for 28c tires. So I don't know where you get the they are to wide for the good aero transition and the measurements of 34mm on the enve.

jlok
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

I'd vote for CLX.

Lighter, cheaper, external nipples.

If you want that "transition" stuff then put Vittoria Corsa Speed 23mm up front. it will be 26.1 when inflated to 100psi on that CLX. it's very light for a tubeless ready tire as well at 235g.

plus, I like 2:1 lacing at the rear wheel.

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Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

I did mention two elements that mean 4.5 ARs are not the right choice for me.

First and foremost, 4.5 ARs can only be used with proper tubeless tires, which rules out my favorite Conti's. (Enve were formal in their reply: with hookless rims at 25mm inner width, tire retention with non tubeless tires would be a problem and the risk of a blow off would be very real, as proven in their testing.)

2nd, on an Aeroad, despite good tire clearance for an aero bike, I'm not even sure they'd fit.

As regards clearance, I'm more concerned with tire height than with tire width (up to a point...), since clearance to the seat tube/cutout appears to be the limiting factor in that bike.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1184
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I know people who run 4.5 ARs with tubetype tires. It's not really a problem if you are reasonable with tire pressures. You have absolutely no reason to inflate a 28mm GP4K S II past 75psi on a 4.5 AR. Hell, even 75psi is a quite high for most people.

Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:37 am
I know people who run 4.5 ARs with tubetype tires. It's not really a problem if you are reasonable with tire pressures. You have absolutely no reason to inflate a 28mm GP4K S II past 75psi on a 4.5 AR. Hell, even 75psi is a quite high for most people.
In the abstract, logic would suggest that you are right. That said, the Enve spokesperson I talked to indicated that the 25mm inner width means that what theoretically applies to other rims doesn't with this one. He also said that having seen the test results live, neither he nor any of his colleagues would run anything but proper tubeless tires on these wheels. Make of that what you will...

Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Bit the bullet and ordered the CLX50 discs. I'll chime in when I get to test them!

Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

The CLX50 are backordered until July. I am second-guessing my choice. I think the CLX or the 4.5AR (which apparently fit the Aeroad) would have been my 1st choice, but I am concerned with the hookless design and the ability of these rims to properly retain non-tubeless specific tires, such as my favored Continental GP4000s, which I plan to continue to use with tubes.

Starting to think that the Enve 3.4 Disc might be a better choice, as there is no question these rims can take and retain non-tubeless tires, whereas I see this as a question mark with the 4.5s or the CLX. Enve specifically indicates that non-tubeless tires WILL blow off the rim on the 4.5 AR, given their 25-mm inner width. That does not exactly inspire confidence with regard to the CLX's 21-mm inner width with the same tires...

I have been unable to find any definitive information on the interwebs and don't feel like risking life and lib playing the guinea pig...

What do you think?

billendk
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:13 am

by billendk

I have a set of hunt 50 carbon aero disc wheels. They are also hookles, but use them with vittoria corsa 28 mm non tubeless tires. Run them with 65 psi, and no problem at all.


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Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

That's part of where my conundrum lies: is the "no problem at all" part simply an indication that the accident hasn't happened yet, or that the possibility of an accident isn't any greater than on a hooked rim??? How do we know?

pushstart
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

I wouldn't do hookless for higher-pressure road application. Enough of the mfrs put lower-than-optimal-for-road max pressure warnings on their hookless rims that I suggest it isn't worth the risk.

It sounds like budget is not a concern here, but another option would be the new Light Bicycle 46mm-deep, 21mm-wide rims, which are available hooked and hookless. Those are really nice rims, very competitive weight, solid reputation -- and can be ordered as complete wheels. (I have both variants -- though I opted for the 36mm for hookless; the hookless have been great for gravel.). I built mine up with Hope RS4 hubs for around $700, which is a pretty great value.

Svetty
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

Your lack of flexibility wrt tyres is limiting you here I can't help but feel.....

Bordcla
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Well, here's an interesting development:


Mark Currie (ENVE Composites)

May 24, 09:30 MDT

Hi Claude,

Thanks for the email. We don't recommend that you use the 4.5AR with a non-tubeless tire, because of the shape of the tubeless rim channel and it's hookless bead.

However, we have tested the 28mm Continental GP4000SII on the 4.5 AR and it does comply with our maximum inflation standards. We're comfortable with you riding that tire on the 4.5 AR with a tube, and that combination will be totally safe. The tire must be a 28mm GP4000SII, and any other clincher tire is not compatible. The maximum pressure is still 80psi.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Mark Currie
Lead Consumer Experience

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