sub 1200 alloy wheels (with component list)

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JoO
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

I am thinking about building a superlight alloy wheels for climbing.
(i weigh 61 kgs so stiffness is not an issue for me)

This is what I came up with:

am classic RD 2218 2,0 364,0 728,0
novatec utralight Front 61,0
bitex RAR 9 192,0
CN spokes Aero 330 52,0 3,7 191,4 (3,3 for 260 mm so 3,7 is a an estimate)
Nipples alloy 52,0 0,3 16,1

Total 1188,5

This would be pretty nice and not cost a fortune.
The only problem is that it seems impossible to buy CN mac aero 330 spokes.

Normal cn MAc 424 (similar to Sapim CX ray) would take the weight up to 1240.

Do these aero 330 spokes exist in the real world?

Multebear
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by Multebear

Don't know, but why don't you just use cx rays or aerolites?

JoO
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

Multebear wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:20 pm
Don't know, but why don't you just use cx rays or aerolites?
because they weigh more and this is weight weenies.

Multebear
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by Multebear

Do you have real world confirmation of the CN 330 spoke weight?

When it comes to spokes, I wouldn't go lighter than cx-ray/aerolite. They are reasonably light and have proved very reliable. If it was possible to make them lighter, I'm pretty sure DT Swiss or Sapim would have done it already.

Another option if you want to go lighter would be 20/24 or 20/28 spoke configuration.

Not that I approve going sub 1200 grams for alloy clinchers. But if weight is everything to you, then go ahead.

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ergott
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by ergott

Not a fan of the rims. Customer has multiple wheels so mileage spread out over 3 years wasn't that high.

Image

Multebear
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by Multebear

Ryde Pulse Sprint rims have a better reputation. Comes with a 20 gram weight penalty over the 2218's. Stans Alpha ZTR 340 will probably do the job as well - 10 gram weight difference.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

in the uk you cant even get 24H and 28H ryde pulse sprints any more.

The light kinlin XR200 rim is light but narrow. they dont crack and build into decent wheels. the stans rim is the other decent choice but is best used with tubeless tyres only.

52 Cx-rays (20F/24R with rims this light is not going to give a nice wheel) weight 240g with alloy nipples in ~290mm lengths. so the actual weight of the spokes will be a bit less so I think your wheels will come out around 1260g. Sub 1200g is going to require extralite hubs.

the CN spoke is very thin and that would be o.k on the front wheel (consider the bitex hub as the flange spacing is wider) but the rear would ideally have a stiffer spoke.

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F45
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

Multebear wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 pm
Do you have real world confirmation of the CN 330 spoke weight?

When it comes to spokes, I wouldn't go lighter than cx-ray/aerolite. They are reasonably light and have proved very reliable. If it was possible to make them lighter, I'm pretty sure DT Swiss or Sapim would have done it already.
They did, Sapim Superspoke and Superspoke bladed.

JoO
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:30 pm
in the uk you cant even get 24H and 28H ryde pulse sprints any more.

The light kinlin XR200 rim is light but narrow. they dont crack and build into decent wheels. the stans rim is the other decent choice but is best used with tubeless tyres only.

52 Cx-rays (20F/24R with rims this light is not going to give a nice wheel) weight 240g with alloy nipples in ~290mm lengths. so the actual weight of the spokes will be a bit less so I think your wheels will come out around 1260g. Sub 1200g is going to require extralite hubs.

the CN spoke is very thin and that would be o.k on the front wheel (consider the bitex hub as the flange spacing is wider) but the rear would ideally have a stiffer spoke.
kilnin XR200 is too narrow, 17-18 mm internal would be much better.
Ryde would be an option (but I dont linke their boxier look)
I have build a a wheelset with CN 424 's. (DT swiss R460 24/24 with novatec hubs - 1490 grs) and have no complaints. Building with sapim lasers is more difficult.

Am classics only come in 24/28. that's why i did consider the CN aero 330 but I don't find any real world info aboiut them.

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

Mac360 exists, 330 doesn't. I checked and they had to be imported from Taiwan at a bit more expensive price than the readily available 424s.

Also reports show that 360s are not suitable for rear wheel DS so you can only really use them for front and NDS rear. Also they are not as light as cnspoke claims them to be. Still over 4gr a piece if my memory serves and the 424 is not much heavier and yet cheaper/available. So I went with 424s on all my wheels. Have been satisfied ever since.

I was thinking on using 360s on front and nds rear. That makes 32 spokes out of 44. Could have saved maybe 20gr or so. Too much trouble and risky because lets say they stretch like hell and you need shorter spokes than you calculate. Bit of a pain.

If you wanna go all out weight weenie I'd try Pillar Megalites @ 3.5gr/pcs. Sapim super spokes could be a good choice too. Super spokes are 1.8mm spokes that allow for a thicker body alloy nipple. Good for nipple reliability.

Furthermore if you intend to do climbing on these lightweight alloys you better have the right gearing because these wheels will flex like hell if you try to go out of saddle and/or drop your cadence (high torque situations). If that happens they will be slower than a stiffer wheel up that steep grade. They will already be slower than aero wheels on flats and descents. I'm going to build me a set anyway because I want a wheel I can get some climbing KOM's on. :lol:

/a

Marin
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by Marin

Shoot for a 1250g build and go for 180g tires + 45g tubes, much better compromise, especially if you don't load the bike into a car for the way down.

JoO
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:02 am
Mac360 exists, 330 doesn't. I checked and they had to be imported from Taiwan at a bit more expensive price than the readily available 424s.

Also reports show that 360s are not suitable for rear wheel DS so you can only really use them for front and NDS rear. Also they are not as light as cnspoke claims them to be. Still over 4gr a piece if my memory serves and the 424 is not much heavier and yet cheaper/available. So I went with 424s on all my wheels. Have been satisfied ever since.

I was thinking on using 360s on front and nds rear. That makes 32 spokes out of 44. Could have saved maybe 20gr or so. Too much trouble and risky because lets say they stretch like hell and you need shorter spokes than you calculate. Bit of a pain.

If you wanna go all out weight weenie I'd try Pillar Megalites @ 3.5gr/pcs. Sapim super spokes could be a good choice too. Super spokes are 1.8mm spokes that allow for a thicker body alloy nipple. Good for nipple reliability.

Furthermore if you intend to do climbing on these lightweight alloys you better have the right gearing because these wheels will flex like hell if you try to go out of saddle and/or drop your cadence (high torque situations). If that happens they will be slower than a stiffer wheel up that steep grade. They will already be slower than aero wheels on flats and descents. I'm going to build me a set anyway because I want a wheel I can get some climbing KOM's on. :lol:

/a

I have a limited budget, hence the CN spokes. (1,1 EUR/piece)
Sapim superspokes are out of budget;
I expected the spokes would be nearly impossible to buy (in Europe)

These would be climbing wheels only.

For the flats I am thinking about megawide wheels (Velocity Quill 622-21) for the bad Belgian roads.

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

With 424's you'd be good with 20+24 spokes I think. Just gotta make sure the rim won't slip a nipple on you :lol: like the picture above. In that case it'd be better with 24+28. Maybe a different 380gr rim? Kinlin xr200 or stans alpha 340.

/a

JoO
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:33 pm
With 424's you'd be good with 20+24 spokes I think. Just gotta make sure the rim won't slip a nipple on you :lol: like the picture above. In that case it'd be better with 24+28. Maybe a different 380gr rim? Kinlin xr200 or stans alpha 340.

/a
The AM's don't come in 20H drilling.
kinlin XR200 are too narrow.
Stans Alpha 340 might be OK, but I understand it is adviable to run tubless, I run clinchers with 50 grs latex tubes.

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ergott
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by ergott

Why not just get carbon tubulars then? you can easily find inexpensive rims that are sub 300g. Run some Tufo Lites and the combination will be significantly lighter and stronger.

My tubulars are 1122g without evening trying to be WW. You can totally get lighter for less money than what I did.

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