Titanium or steel freehub body for DT hubs?

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grover
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by grover

I skimmed the thread. Didn't see this mentioned. Apologies if it did.

Campag and Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassettes are the same spacing now. You could put a Campag freehub body on your DT hubs and use Campag cassettes. They don't guage due to the deeper splines.

But not the perfect solution you're after. I use WI hubs now too for that reason.

pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

ergott wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:34 pm
PS for all Shimano's attention to good engineering they shat the bed with their flange placement on Dura Ace hubs (9100). There's a very significant resulting tension difference between the sides requiring I high minimum tension on the right to make for acceptable tension on the left. They essentially shifted both flanges over 1.8mm and didn't rethink left flange placement. Rims with a low max tension will have a problem.

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I think it's about time that Shimano puts the cassette on the other side :D

Joking aside, do you think the better solution to the problem would be 2:1 lacing? I'm surprised that the 'large three' haven't come out with a rear hub that supports 2:1 lacing. I see many benefits. I think once they introduce the hubs more rim manufacturers will follow with 2:1 lacing rims.

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by Weenie


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ergott
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by ergott

The make some of their factory wheels that way. Not the hubs separate

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NickJHP
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by NickJHP

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:38 am
Joking aside, do you think the better solution to the problem would be 2:1 lacing? I'm surprised that the 'large three' haven't come out with a rear hub that supports 2:1 lacing.
Campagnolo certainly use that spoking pattern on their factory wheels - I have some Eurus wheels that use 21 spokes in the rear wheel with 14 spokes x2 on the drive side and seven radial spokes on the non-drive side.

You could achieve the same 2:1 spoking with a 24-spoke rim on a 32-spoke hub. Calculating the needed spoke lengths would be a bit of an exercise, though.

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mattr
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by mattr

sungod wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:07 am
You know that shimano cassettes gouge light alloy hubs, it's not the fault of the hub, it's not the fault of the cassette, they simply aren't compatible
It's the fault of the hub. Any shimano cassette will fit on any shimano hub (with certain speed related caveats, 10/11 etc) and not notch it, at all. Even the lowest spec cassettes won't notch D-A hubs.
Because they fulfill the requirements of the system. Light alloy doesn't.

mattr
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by mattr

ergott wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm
The Sram design has one set of teeth/splines that are significantly wider and don't gouge aluminium freehubs in the middle cogs like Shimano (and to be fair lower end Sram). The result is a lighter system maintaining Shimano's standard.
I'd not call what correctly fitted high end shimano cassettes do to freehubs actually notching, more like marking the surface. I've never had any issues just sliding them off. Unless the lock rings come loose. Then i've had an XT sprocket cut through a spline completely........
ergott wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm
I also agree that Campagnolo cheated on their design. Deeper splines limits bearing dimensions inside the freehub. I practice I don't know just how much performance or durability is lost, but yes larger bearings are nice if you can make it work.
Quite a lot, place i used to work had a B10 bearing life calculator (for predictive servicing of machines) and the difference will be significant. Can't remember the details, but it's something along the lines of halving the ball size will (approximately) quarter the life then you gain by having more balls.

mattr
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by mattr

ergott wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:34 pm
PS for all Shimano's attention to good engineering they shat the bed with their flange placement on Dura Ace hubs (9100). There's a very significant resulting tension difference between the sides requiring I high minimum tension on the right to make for acceptable tension on the left. They essentially shifted both flanges over 1.8mm and didn't rethink left flange placement. Rims with a low max tension will have a problem.
Do you play around much with different cross spoking on either side? We did some FEA work on spoked wheels on the sly at work a good few years ago and (back then) doing 2x drive and 3x idle actually gave a more even tension. It's how i still do my wheels now and seems to give good results (better than the 3x/3x wheels i have bought anyway).

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ergott
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by ergott

I have played around with patterns and that one does make sense. I haven't had any particular pattern perform worse than another so I think the differences are very small. Theoretically that 3X/2X does work better, but I don't remember how much of an increase in left tension you have as a result.

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MayhemSWE
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by MayhemSWE

This thread seems like a suitable place to ask if anyone knows the differences and compatibility between the various DT Swiss freehubs. Going through the rear hubs listed on their website, meaning only star ratchet hubs available at retail and not any of the OEM/low-end pawl hubs, there seems to be a mind-boggling number of variations.

Four different 11-speed road freehubs:
180 road rim/disc = Shimano Road 11SP SL (ASSL11)
240s road rim/disc = Shimano Road 11SP Light (ASL11)
350 road rim = Shimano Road 11SP (AS11)
350 road disc = Shimano Road 11SP Forged (ASF11)

Five different 10-speed freehubs:
180 MTB = Shimano Light S (ASLS)
240s MTB = Shimano Light (ASL)
240s MTB bolt on = Shimano (AS)
240s hybrid = Shimano Steel (SS)
350 MTB = Shimano (AS)
350 MTB 148/150 = Shimano Forged (ASF)
350 MTB 177/190/197 = Shimano Light (ASL)
350 hybrid = Shimano Steel (SS)
540 tandem = Shimano Steel (SS)

Are all of them aluminium except for the one explicitly labeled as steel? Are all freehubs cross-compatible across all hubs? What are the differences between the "regular" and forged freehubs? Do the various models come with different bearings? How would you rank them from best to worst durability of the splines?

Going to build a pair of climbing wheels and intend to use 240s hubs, but will need a 34T or even 36T cog so cannot use a Sram Red cassette. Trying to figure out whether it would be worthwhile switching to a different freehub in order to minimize gouging…

BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017E ... URIFRO399Y

DT Swiss steel cassette body - fits 180, 240 and 350 hubs.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

What sort of weight penalty for the steel body?

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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

A strong enough rider/sprinter should be able to notch steel freehubs.

I like using alloy+red. Nice and light. I'm a small guy though.

For someone stronger I understand that swapping expensive cassettes yearly makes no sense. Then you need heavy duty freehubs and a certain cassette.

I use a 36t xx cassette on my road bike. It's only available as 10 speed. For 11 speed you would need to jump to 42t xd if you want larger than 32t, and combine it with an "exact actuation" rear derailleur road/mtb that can clear a 42t cassette. Maybe a long cage 10s xx derailleur?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I suggest to any one with gauging like multebear to tighten there lockrings beyond just stopping the cassette moving. That simply us not enough. Get it RFT. Now I am quite sure you can work out that stands for. If I can stop my alloy miche freehubs gouging with separate steel sprockets ( I'm no light weight rider) you can limit or stop on your hubs.

Your all searching for solutions where you calibrated arm is needed. SRAM red cassettes are another really good solution.

I did the sums on 2x ds and 3x nds the tension change was something fairly small.

You can work this out by calculating the bracing angles. The down side is less tangential spiking and this results in higher tension on the spokes when pedalling. So while tension is marginally imProved you will fatigue the spokes quicker.

This is the problem with trying to improve tension balance at any cost. There is a cost.

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

What does the F in RFT stand for?

(I speak english and Battlestar Galactica.)

by Weenie


AJS914
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by AJS914

F = First

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