Campagnolo Zonda/ Racing 3 (2018)C17 V Shamal/ Racing Zero C17

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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ClydesdaleChris
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 8:53 am

by ClydesdaleChris

Comparing these two levels of wheels from the respective manufacturers.

Both C17
Alloy spokes and USB bearings on the Shamal/ Zero
Steel spokes and steel bearings on the Zonda/ Racing 3.

50g difference.


Discuss. Has anyone got the new 2018 Racing 3 yet?
BandiCoote

Eddy Merckx Roubaix70 custom build
Trek Émonda 2018 SLR

robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I own both Zonda C17 and Shamal C17. While the two are close in weight, that's where the similarities end.

The Shamals are superior in every other way. The bearings are noticeably smoother. The wheelset as a whole is an absolute metric shit-ton stiffer (I get some brake rub on Zondas, while I can barely get the Shamal rim to touch the brake pad applying 90-degree force with my hand). The rim has had a bunch of extra milling work done to it as well - not an aero rim by any stretch, but a far smoother shape than the Zonda which is more of a classic square box section. Somehow the brake surface actually feels much better on the Shamals too (same stock Campy pads).

I use the Zonda's on my alloy bike, for the indoor trainer and wet weather rides. Shamals are on my carbon bike and are used for all-weather climbing. My advice is for either, get the straight clincher version with non-mille brake surface.

I have Bora Ultra tubulars for fair weather climbing, they are another step up yet again ;-)
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

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TonyM
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by TonyM

The Shamal/ Racing Zero are by far better! Hubs are better/ smoother, rims/ spokes are stiffer.

For training purpose take the Zonda/ Racing 3.

sawyer
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by sawyer

I've owned two sets of Shamals and two sets of Zondas ...

Zondas are more comfortable and the narrow spokes catch the wind less.

Shamals feel snappier on climbs - better climbing wheel.

Both have very good hubs, but obviously Shamal has the edge there

The Tour test data scores Zondas as fractionally more aero FWIW
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

r_mutt
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by r_mutt

I've had both wheels (albeit, not the same years) my opinion is that the Shamal was somewhat stiffer but also the ride was much harsher. imho, this was due to the aluminum spokes on the Shamal. I'm not convinced that the shamal is the better wheel.i feel like Campagnolo had to drop weight on the Shamal to justify the higher price- so they went with aluminum spokes. if the aluminum spokes were so much better than the Zonda's steel, why is it that they use steel spokes on their top on the line Bora?
Last edited by r_mutt on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fordred
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by fordred

Same experience with r_mutt. Shamal rides very harsh. Swap to Zonda and it was up 2 levels of comfort.
They have the same hubs, but different bearings and after running in Zonda, they are really smooth as well.
Sold the Shamal, kept the Zonda.

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corky
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by corky

Racing 3 2018 not out yet........ saw feb 2018 on one Italian e-tailer site....

ClydesdaleChris
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 8:53 am

by ClydesdaleChris

Bit of an update, I have retained the Zonda C17 I have for the Merckx General duties and swapped a set of carbons for a new set of C17 Zero Competizione. Having owned a set of C17 Zeros in the past it will be interesting to see how they ride with the CULT bearings. Thanks for everyone’s thoughts.


The Zonda is a very, very nice wheelset for the price. The C17 Racing 3 will be awesome when it comes out. I almost bought another set of Zonda’s for the Emonda!
Last edited by ClydesdaleChris on Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
BandiCoote

Eddy Merckx Roubaix70 custom build
Trek Émonda 2018 SLR

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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

fordred wrote:Same experience with r_mutt. Shamal rides very harsh. Swap to Zonda and it was up 2 levels of comfort.
They have the same hubs, but different bearings and after running in Zonda, they are really smooth as well.
Sold the Shamal, kept the Zonda.
Zonda has aluminum hubs, Shamal is CF.

I own both, use CX/CG tires and not noticed any ride difference. The Shamal is much more laterally stiff.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

fordred
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:22 pm

by fordred

Hellgate wrote:
fordred wrote:Same experience with r_mutt. Shamal rides very harsh. Swap to Zonda and it was up 2 levels of comfort.
They have the same hubs, but different bearings and after running in Zonda, they are really smooth as well.
Sold the Shamal, kept the Zonda.
Zonda has aluminum hubs, Shamal is CF.

I own both, use CX/CG tires and not noticed any ride difference. The Shamal is much more laterally stiff.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


That's just the shell. The internals are the same.

Shamals are not very stiff. They probably feel stiffer because they ride harsher.

I plucked these test info from here.
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/tour-magazine-test-2011-4-hand-built-wheels-pitched-against-12-factory-ones-261933.html

CAMPAGNOLO Shamal Ultra 2 Way Fit:
spokes: 16/21 bladed
aerodynamics (30/40/50 km/h) in (Watts): 7.2/17.1/33.5
inertia (Joule): 109
lateral stiffness (N/mm): 47/44
dimension (width x height) in (mm): 20.7 x 23.3 (28 rear)
weight (front/rear/quick release) in (gramms): 618/829/121

CAMPAGNOLO Zonda:
spokes: 16/21 bladed
aerodynamics (30/40/50 km/h) in (Watts): 6.9/16.3/31.8
inertia (Joule): 117
lateral stiffness (N/mm): 50/49
dimension (width x height) in (mm): 20.5 x 23.5 (27.6 rear)
weight (front/rear/quick release) in (gramms): 660/835/121

ClydesdaleChris
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 8:53 am

by ClydesdaleChris

After a couple of rides on the Competiziones, I can say you definitely notice the difference in rolling between the Zonda and the Competizione. It feels a bit stiffer, but not by much (if at all), but the bike noticeably rolls smoother and has less rolling resistance with the same tyres, pressures etc. than the Zonda’s. Also not sure what magic they used in the freehub but it’s silent and very, very smooth on freewheel.
BandiCoote

Eddy Merckx Roubaix70 custom build
Trek Émonda 2018 SLR

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TonyM
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by TonyM

Have the same feeling in my fulcrum Racing Zero/ Campy Bora wheels they just feel so smooth

sawyer
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by sawyer

ClydesdaleChris wrote:After a couple of rides on the Competiziones, I can say you definitely notice the difference in rolling between the Zonda and the Competizione. It feels a bit stiffer, but not by much (if at all), but the bike noticeably rolls smoother and has less rolling resistance with the same tyres, pressures etc. than the Zonda’s. Also not sure what magic they used in the freehub but it’s silent and very, very smooth on freewheel.


Your brain is tricking you on this one, or alternatively there is an issue with the pair of Zondas you have (unlikely) You will be able to feel a difference between these wheels due to the different construction (in particular the spokes), but assuming both hubs are fully functioning etc, you will not be able to feel the 1w or so difference from the better hubs in the Shamals.

The data fordred posted is the best we have AFAIK, what it doesn't capture is the most noticeable difference: the difference in comfort from the more compliant spokes on the Zondas

rruff's point re the Boras also having thin steel spokes is well made. Shamals are great wheels, but the fat alu spokes are pure marketing
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

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