Clincher faster than Tubs?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
addictR1
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Been seeing lots of different vid about testing between tubs vs clinchers. Seems that even with the same width tires and same psi (although personally tubs should be at a higher psi to make the test more valid/ fair), clinchers are faster.

If that's the case how come pro in TDF doesn't use clinchers? Maybe some team does, I'm not sure, but seems to me most pros still prefers tubs.

I use to ride all clinchers but since I bought Aero72 + veloflex sprinters... I got so hooked. Even bought a DA C24+ veloflex carbons.

Thoughts?


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by Weenie


Marin
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Clinchers are faster so Pros use them in time trials.

The only reason tubs are used in races with support cars is that you can ride on a deflated tub until a wheel swap.

With cotton clinchers available, there is no reason except weight to ride tubs, and if you carry a spare tub the clincher setup will be lighter again.

Ok, let it begin!

petromyzon
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

A clincher and a tub of exactly the same construction at exactly the same pressure and with exactly the same cross-sectional size will be very close in rolling resistance.
Modern wide clincher rims tend to mean that in real life, 23mm clinchers are the same or larger when inflated than 25mm tubs, so this is where the advantage you are speaking of comes from.

Factors that favour tubs: nice safe place for a latex tube, run-flat safety which is increasingly more important with fragile time trial tyres on quick descents.

Factors that favour clinchers/tubeless: more consistent interface with rim (glue and tape jobs can increase rolling resistance if poorly done), wide availability of large sizes, wide availability of tyres that make a compromise between puncture resistance in favour of running sealant, lower cost meaning that customer may be happier running a more fragile setup

mattr
Posts: 3534
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=136144

Can someone merge the threads......... ;)

whosatthewheel
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:35 pm
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by whosatthewheel

I suspect like for like, the difference is the same as shaving your legs every week or every 3 days

addictR1
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

one the reason i opted for tubs was hearing about the brake tracks on tubs is less susceptible to cracking under hard braking and have better heat dissipation. not sure about heat dissipation.. but after going through 2 sets of farsports due to brake track area cracking, i figure i give tubs a try... and daddy likes~

i was thinking since most clinchers are never the claimed width (GP4KII 23mm measures to be 25mm, etc) and tubs does in some way (my veloflex sprinters @ 22mm measure to 22.6~7mm when pumped to 120psi) maybe that's why the clinchers are faster; meaning how 25mm is faster than 23mm wheels due to more rubber coming in contacts with the ground.

C36
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

In terms of rolling resistance tires are better than tu ultra for last 20 years and the Michelin bi-synergy (and maybe the older hi-synergy too. Now a lot other aspect have to be taken in consideration. Wheels are lighter, the feel is "better" and as already mentioned you can roll flat easy (Alano became world champion in Colombia with a flat in the last kms)


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taztaylortaz
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:10 am

by taztaylortaz

Don't forget pinch flat resistance for tubs, which allows running lower pressure.

Hexsense
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

addictR1 wrote:(although personally tubs should be at a higher psi to make the test more valid/ fair), clinchers are faster.

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running at very high pressure is a DISADVANTAGE in real road that isn't as smooth as indoor wood floor.
see https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/part-4b- ... -impedance
and https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/11517862 ... lete-story

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addictR1
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Hexsense wrote:
addictR1 wrote:(although personally tubs should be at a higher psi to make the test more valid/ fair), clinchers are faster.

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running at very high pressure is a DISADVANTAGE in real road that isn't as smooth as indoor wood floor.
see https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/part-4b- ... -impedance
and https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/11517862 ... lete-story

Sent from my Nokia 3310 using GPRS


I've noticed that as well.. So I've been using Mavic app to estimate the psi for front and rear based on my weight.


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Alexandrumarian
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Vittoria has an app too and recommends very high pressures. For me it gives 10bar /145psi at 95kg with cotton tubs. I use 8 bar, 7.5 front

3Pio
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:Vittoria has an app too and recommends very high pressures. For me it gives 10bar /145psi at 95kg with cotton tubs. I use 8 bar, 7.5 front


Seem that im using too high pressure :)

With my 70-71kg, with Corsa G+ tubs im using 7.6 in the front, 7.9 in the rear.. In term of comfort feel very comfrotable (and in term in grip)

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Or maybe i'm too low, who knows. But i did try 7 with 6.5 with no noticeable/useful increase in speed or comfort. I alo tried even lower (5.5 or 6 front can't recall) and at my weight the handling was compromised, i could feel the front rim bending over and dancing on the tire when cornering, a totally ugly sensation

sawyer
Posts: 4495
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

petromyzon wrote:
Factors that favour tubs: nice safe place for a latex tube, run-flat safety which is increasingly more important with fragile time trial tyres on quick descents.

Factors that favour clinchers/tubeless: more consistent interface with rim (glue and tape jobs can increase rolling resistance if poorly done), wide availability of large sizes, wide availability of tyres that make a compromise between puncture resistance in favour of running sealant, lower cost meaning that customer may be happier running a more fragile setup


This is a good summary.

One thing that is always ignored in the "clinchers are faster" argument is that a clincher tyre is not a safe place for a latex tube (which generally you need to match or beat the comparable tub's CRR).

It's easier and cheaper to be fast on clinchers, and therein lies the appeal.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

by Weenie


Marin
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Hmm, I only run clinchers, and I have Latex tubes in 4 of 5 sets. What's not safe?

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