New handbuilt wheelset - spoke irregularity issue

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Pezeke
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:58 pm
Location: Belgium

by Pezeke

I've recently had a wheelset built up with H Plus Son TB14 rims, Tune Mig/Mag hubs and Sapim spokes. For the rear wheel, I chose 3x lacing with Race spokes on the drive side and Laser spokes on the non-drive side. Upon receiving the wheels, I noticed that five of the 16 spokes on the non-drive side - the Sapim Laser spokes - are not perfectly straight. It's like they have small bend and it's on the same spot on all five spokes. Please have a look at the pics below.

Would any of you know what is up here? Is this ok - or should I head back to the wheel builder? Does this in any way affect the strength of the implicated spokes or the wheel as such? Is this the 'wind-up' that Sapim warns against when working with Laser spokes?

Thanks for any help!

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Bends i spokes like that are weak spots. Id send it back. The builder has probably used a crank arm for stressing the spokes and this will cause a kink. I use a my hands to avoid this problem. If i am feeling week i have a wooden lead beater that serves the same purpose but does not kink the spokes.

by Weenie


alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

My first thought was that the builder held the spokes with pliers while tensioning them but then I read that it's the NDS which shouldn't need holding the spokes (at least not until they can start bending).

NDS tension is not very high. Wheel is probably fine.

Maybe you can get a discount on account of the looks.

/a (I'm not a pro wheelbuilder, but I have bent a few spokes and managed to ride many km on them afterwards. I'm light at 62kg.)

whosatthewheel
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by whosatthewheel

I don't think the spoke will ever fail at that point, but on a new set of wheels you don't expect that... talk to the builder, I am sure he wants to rectify his work... it's not good publicity for him.

On a related note, I don't understand the need to use tools to stress (or destress) spokes... it's a simple process which involves using fingers... wheelbuilding is not body building. There is also no need wahtsoever to use pliers to hold a spoke to avoid wind up. Well lubricated threads, combined with good technique is all is needed with round spokes... spoke wind up is a non issue, a myth perpetrated by the internet and originated by folks who use spokes too thin for their ability.

As a beginner builder, you have to progress towards using Sapim Laser and CX-Ray... they are not a starting point...

L3X
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:39 pm

by L3X

whosatthewheel wrote:I don't think the spoke will ever fail at that point, but on a new set of wheels you don't expect that... talk to the builder, I am sure he wants to rectify his work... it's not good publicity for him.

100% agree. The wheel itself will probably be fine, but it does fail on the looks department. Also every time you clean your bike you're going to notice it (and in my case be annoyed by it), so I would contact the builder and give him/her the chance to fix this for you.

Svetty
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

whosatthewheel wrote:I don't think the spoke will ever fail at that point, but on a new set of wheels you don't expect that... talk to the builder, I am sure he wants to rectify his work... it's not good publicity for him.

On a related note, I don't understand the need to use tools to stress (or destress) spokes... it's a simple process which involves using fingers... wheelbuilding is not body building. There is also no need wahtsoever to use pliers to hold a spoke to avoid wind up. Well lubricated threads, combined with good technique is all is needed with round spokes... spoke wind up is a non issue, a myth perpetrated by the internet and originated by folks who use spokes too thin for their ability.

As a beginner builder, you have to progress towards using Sapim Laser and CX-Ray... they are not a starting point...


You forgot to mention that you are a Wheel-Building God and only mere mortals get spoke wind-up :lol:

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I have seen spoke failures in the butted section. I still think it is a potential weak spot and the spokes should be replaced. Also replace all the lasers with race spokes. The tb14 rim is not stiff enough to cope with thin spokes on the rear. It also is another weakness in the wheel.

by Weenie


whosatthewheel
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by whosatthewheel

Svetty wrote:
You forgot to mention that you are a Wheel-Building God and only mere mortals get spoke wind-up :lol:


I'd rather carry no baggage on here, if you don't mind... there is a reason I left BR and that's because everything was getting personal. This is no longer going to happen

Onto the issue: I think I've built my first wheel using Revolution spokes after maybe 20 sets built using DT comp. By then I had developed a decent knowhow. I have never had issues with Laser or Revolution going out of true because of windup. If you want to avoid windup, here's MY three golden rules:

1) make sure the threads are very clean and appropriately lubricated. Oil is best

2) Avoid nipples and spokes with threadlock, obviously that is a lot of friction... PRO lock Nyloc and whatnot were not supposed to be used with thin 1.5 mm section spokes... advice might have changed, but the issue remains

3) Whenever you tighten the nipple, do it gently, slowly and always back up a quarter of a turn to release any windup

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