Tubular vs Tubeless?

[bm0p700f]

My tubeless setups are more comfortable than my tubular wheels/tyres. Some of tubular wheels are lighter. Lighter does not seem to be faster though.

What I would like is my favourite tubeless tyre made into a tubular. I did suggest this to IRC and they they said they had the same thought.

[WinterRider]

My tubeless setups are more comfortable than my tubular wheels/tyres. Some of tubular wheels are lighter. Lighter does not seem to be faster though.

Tire fabric.. that is square one. Find the sweet spot for the rubber being run vs the surfaces traveled vs load.. that is quickest.

How a tire rolls on a machine figuring rolling resistance is an objective measure of comparison between tires. I am not convinced now that figure is all that relevant to running a tire in the real world.

[Nefarious86]

Is there a tubeless tan wall that isnt as fragile as the corsa speed?

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[hamd]

What I would like is my favourite tubeless tyre made into a tubular. I did suggest this to IRC and they they said they had the same thought.

What a great idea! I can’t think of any drawbacks. Can anyone?

[Marin]

Yes, impossible to fix if you have a flat, like all tubulars?

[mattr]

?
They are fairly straightforward to fix.
Either on the road (replace) or at home (patching or replacing tube, though i send mine off as I'm lazy.)

[bm0p700f]

Sealant and tyres worms are the fix like with normal tubeless. Unlike tufo tyres which use a silly membrane the tubeless tubular will be latex or butyl lined so it holds air without sealant. The join can be sealed externally and the base tape glued in place and sealed like a geax saguro mtb tub is. Simply no downsides.

The problem is to make a new tyre like this would require probably an order of a thousand or more. I am going to enquire further because this gets around the tubeless tyre rim compatability issues and the inherent weakness in clincher type rim designs.

Tubular tyres and rims are a superior way of doing a bicycle tyre. Currently the inner tube is the problem as it means only small holes can be fixed with sealant sometimes and a spare tub should be carried. Also tubeless tyres tend to be more comfortable. Not to mention the aero advantages. Down side probably cost.

[peroni]

a buddy of mine rides tubeless exclusively and fills it up wit NoStans sealant. it was great and all until last time him and my other friend went climbing and he had a rear puncture going up hill... needless to say, my other friend riding behind him got jeezed all over his face, bike, bibs, you name it it's all over him. lol

This! I have been running tubeless Hutchinson for the last few months but I'm going back to regular clinchers at the next tire change.
I only had one flat with tubeless and it eventually fixed itself after a few minutes, however my shirt was permanently stained and it took me several days to get rid of the sealant sprayed on the frame. Not worth the minimal (if any) improved rolling resistance. Sealant is joe's no flats

I will continue using tubeless on my MTB though.

[TobinHatesYou]

^^

This is a real issue. Orange Seal left small splash marks on one of my black gilets about a year ago and it does seem to be permanently stained.

Sealant on the bike though, my guess is Joe’s and Stan’s are a lot harder to clean off than Orange Seal. Orange Seal either comes off easily as a thin sheet of “skin” or the tiny splotches can just be wiped off easily with a wet rag or baby wipes.

[Imaking20]

Interesting thread. A few years ago, while I was still primarily riding clinchers and only dabbled with clinchers, I decided to see what all the praise was about with tubeless and picked up a set of Easton EA90SL and some Scwhalbe One tubeless tires. I trained and raced on them until ~500 miles in, I got a pretty random flat right in the seam in the center of the tread that wouldn't seal. The grip/feel in turns during races was not great but standing on the side of the road, covered in sealant, and still having to install a tube to finish my ride - was enough to put me off since.

Fast forward a bit and I've been on tubulars exclusively for 2+ years. However, part of me is curious to see how tubeless tires have come along (though most would say the tire I didn't like then is still one of the best now). At some point, maybe I'll come across a great deal on a set of wheels interesting enough for me to make another tubeless attempt.. but then there's the whole thing about braking on carbon clinchers...

The rolling resistance argument is an interesting one. For sure, there is more and more information available all the time that supports tubeless tires having potential to roll faster than regular clincher tires - HOWEVER - there is very, very little actual data floating around for rolling resistance on tubulars. Using Bicyclerollingreistance.com as a reference point - 58 tires have been tested, only 5 of which are tubular, and one of them happens to be the second fastest* tire he's ever tested. This doesn't leave me thinking tubular tires are the least fast option - just the least tested option in this particular debate.

*Yes, the fastest tire is tubeless. But there are only 3 tires in the top 10 which are tubeless.

[bm0p700f]

Rolling resistance in a drum is not a tarmac test. It may replicate some smoother road surfaces. On real roads I am not sure any more. Vertical acceleration really slow you down. The diamond pattern used on the bicycle rolling resistance tests is still smoother than many roads. It's a controlled test but may not rank the tyres in there true order.

Such test also have the effect of getting manufacturers to get there tyres to perform well on test but maybe not so well in reality. Car fuel consumption figures are a hood example. It happens in many other fields as well. I am not saying the guy who dies bicyclerollingresistance is doing bad work. I am just not sure it is relevant.

Lower pressures on rougher roads are faster yet the crr tests don't show this.

[bm0p700f]

Some sealants stain more than others. Stans and orange seal contain ammonia. These sealant do stain. I have yet to permentantly mark my cloths with Caffè latex.

I think many tubeless issues are product choices issues. I also use tubeless tyres that hardly ever puncture. That solves the problem at a stroke.

[TobinHatesYou]

Orange Seal does not contain ammonia.

[shimmeD]

If you can make it happen (beg IRC), bmOp , count me in on a tubeless tub. It will be truly a best of both worlds - self-sealing and sublime ride.

[TobinHatesYou]

There already are tubeless tubs, but why would you want one? They’ll be less supple than tubeless clinchers and the extra casing material will almost nullify the weight advantage of the tubular rim.

In addition you still have to deal with gluing or taping the tire to the rim and if you get an unsealable puncture, you’ve got to replace the whole tire with the spare you had in your jersey pocket anyway. At least with Hutchinson tubeless clinchers you can unmount the bead by hand and stuff a light 50g tube in there.