- in the industry
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- Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
- Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I will say this again. tubeless fails are user error (except for a tyre fail but clinchers do that as well). User blame the tubeless system rather than blaming there lack of knowledge. This is a common thing though. blame the product first rather than think if they have done something wrong. #
2500 miles from the pro one seems to be about that they do. To put it into context on my commutor the rear last IRC RBCC tyre managed 4350 miles before I removed it (the wear indicators had not worn through though) so that make the swchwalbe tyre more expsneive even they are cheaper to buy per tyre.
I have just fitted a set of clement tyres to a set my my CX wheels. With IRC fitted the tyre remains locked to the rim without air. Using the same clements as above the tyre falls and the tyre was way to easy to fit. Moral here is if a tyre is sized to make it easy to fit then the risk of burping at low pressures is higher. not as issue for road tyres but for CX that is a problem. Tubeless users just have to realise these tyres are NOT CLINCHERS and must be a tighter fit if you want the tyre to secure seated on the rim.
This issue is rim as IRC and schwable tyre which are properly sized fit nice and snug, it is other brands that pose the problem.
sp3000 wrote:Yep, not lighter. You need at least 30-40mm sealant. Not to mention every few months it dries up so you have to add more, you can easily find yourself with 60g in there some dry spread out, some liquid... Pro ones are 235g claimed (I can weigh mine tomorrow) so at best you can be the same as a good tyre with a good tube, not ultra light tube and in the end tube is probably going to be a lighter setup.
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pretty sure mine are exactly on weight.
its not an exact, direct comparison, but given the confidence i have with puncture resistance i dont carry spare tube, pump/co2, etc, when riding my tubeless setting.
so theres bunch more weight saving there - if thats the game we're playing.
ive had a puncture once , on the road. on center tread and it started spraying fluid on and off. it held pressure for me to ride 30km home with quite high pressure. i consider that a success, minus having to clean extra sealant from the downtube and fork bridge. patched it from the inside using a glueless patch (!!!) and its been damn perfect for 500km+ so far.
in addition to 25mm pro one tubeless, i have 25mm one clincher (w/ butyl). mounted on identical rims the P1 come out about 1mm wider. but the feel is completely different. initially the p1 tubeless felt a bit wooden or dead. after a few rides(is it break-in? familarity? purely mental?)... seat of pants evaluation at same pressure is that they feel luxurious by comparison with no sense of bogging. way more comfortable
Had a bad experience with two IRC RBCC tires recently, however.
Tires were on DT Swiss PR1400 tubeless ready rims and held air and rode quite nicely. But when rolling on a smooth road straight ahead at about 40kph a sudden bang from front tire and instant pressure loss. Tire stayed on the rim so I could bring the bike to a halt without falling. The bead on the left side had complexity separated form the rim. Right hand bead stayed on the rim. Tire size was 25mm. No obvious damage to the tire. Same thing happened with the back tire a couple of weeks later but this time both beads came off but the tire stayed on the rim. Tires were at approx 95psi.
Maybe user error but have no idea why this happened. I'm not new to tubeless. Perhaps the RBCC and PR1400 combo should be watched.
PR1400 rims are claimed 18mm inner width btw.
I used a variety of sealants (Stans, Bontrager, Orange Seal, Effeto, homebrew), but none of them were consistent enough. I also used different tyres (Hutchinson Atom, Fusion 3 and Intensive; Bontrager R3), but none really lived up to the advertised experience. The rides were smoother, but flat tires were plentiful, and then messy. Frame cleanup, messy tube replacements. I just got tired of the whole experience.
I currently run tubeless on my CX bike (non-race wheels), and my mountain bike. I might give tubeless road another go, but not anytime soon.
I am not sure about 'mess' and 'hassle', though. I think I would tend toward the opposite. With respect to weight, I think that the point of them is for training, versus racing. Accordingly, the self-sealing feature of the system far outweighs (pun intended) the fact that they are heavier. Besides, once you deduct the weight of the spare tubular/tubes you used to have to carry, they aren't actually heavier as a system.
Upgraded to Schwalbe Pro 1.
I would never do long training rides without tube/pump even on tubeless. And the Stan's rim tape needs two layers to prevent bursting through the spoke holes at high pressure.
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I still carry a tube to give to others. One of the imponderables is that I have no idea how many punctures have sealed themselves. Guys in my bunch have twice shouted to me that they can hear a hiss in my rear tyre or see a puff of goo but by the time I stopped the hole had healed and we couldn't even see it. That was quite fun especially when the bunch was expecting a tedious tube change.
My next wheelset will be a Mavic tubeless wheel/tyre combo from their big new range. If they have got their tolerances right then they should be fantastic.
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