Tubular slightly off center but perfectly straight. Tear off and remout or ride and forget?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Kaboom
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm

by Kaboom

So this week, after 5 months of riding 25mm tubies, I'm back on 23s again and loving it. The thing is in my rush to get them mounted, the front tubular is clearly off-center, the center of the tread is visibly closer to the right side of the rim, and you can see that there is about 1/16th of an inch more white tape showing on one side than the other.
I rode it this morning and it was fine, and the bike tracks straight, but I'm slightly concerned that it might roll when cornering hard. You know how tubies roll in on themselves when inflated off a rim? I'm slightly worried it will have a tendency to do that if not properly centered.
So what do you guys think? Tear it off and remount (i'd really rather not...) or just screw it and ride it as it is?
Thanks and cheers!

Geoff
Posts: 5136
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Be careful about just looking at the basetape, rather than the tread. In my experience, the basetapes are often not aligned with the tread. If the tread is still ok, then you're fine. Although we aim for perfection, the truth is that it does not matter that much.

by Weenie


sungod
Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Location: it's raining, it must be uk

by sungod

yeah, it won't roll off because of that, you've still got the entire rim bed in contact with basetape

but you know if you leave it it's just going to bug you every time you look at it :D

with the glue still fresh, you can pull it more easily, re-glue and refit, probably take about an hour

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

A couple weeks ago I did my first tubular glue job. I used carbon Conti which grabs fast and hard. Struggling to get a reasonable stretch fast enough, I forgot about the thread and mostly focused on the base tape. When done I noticed the thread pattern was waaaay off. With all embarrassment, I am showing a pic.

I tried to correct it by pulling the worst areas but it was already very difficult and my thumbs were beat (mostly because I have some tendon? issues on the inside of the thumbs from the handlebars) so I decided to sleep on it and decide next day if ride or pull. Of course next day all I wanted was to try the new wheels. The base tape is showing on both sides. So far it is fine and I don't notice handling issues but visually it is killing me. The base tape and the sew line were definitely not aligned. Next time I will get tan sidewalls. Provided the tan part is well centered, it should be easier to see what is happening in the rush of laying down the tube.
Attachments
thread.jpg

Kaboom
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm

by Kaboom

Geoff wrote:Be careful about just looking at the basetape, rather than the tread. In my experience, the basetapes are often not aligned with the tread. If the tread is still ok, then you're fine. Although we aim for perfection, the truth is that it does not matter that much.


I know, It's actually the tread that tipped me off, and then I looked at the basetape. So far in the 6 Vittoria CXs I've mounted the tape has been bang on center with the tread, but when centering I always go by the tread.

sungod wrote:but you know if you leave it it's just going to bug you every time you look at it :D


I know, I KNOW. I didnt notice anything weird at all this morning, but every time I look at it I cringe. It might be worth tearing it off just for the aesthetics...

Alexandrumarian wrote:A couple weeks ago I did my first tubular glue job. I used carbon Conti which grabs fast and hard. Struggling to get a reasonable stretch fast enough, I forgot about the thread and mostly focused on the base tape. When done I noticed the thread pattern was waaaay off. With all embarrassment, I am showing a pic.

I tried to correct it by pulling the worst areas but it was already very difficult and my thumbs were beat (mostly because I have some tendon? issues on the inside of the thumbs from the handlebars) so I decided to sleep on it and decide next day if ride or pull. Of course next day all I wanted was to try the new wheels. The base tape is showing on both sides. So far it is fine and I don't notice handling issues but visually it is killing me. The base tape and the sew line were definitely not aligned. Next time I will get tan sidewalls. Provided the tan part is well centered, it should be easier to see what is happening in the rush of laying down the tube.


We might just have to bite the bullet and sit down one afternoon. Then again, there might be a pair of Bora 35s in the horizon, so I might just hold off for a while if there's no danger of rolling.

kevhogaz
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Arizona

by kevhogaz

Alexandrumarian wrote:A couple weeks ago I did my first tubular glue job. I used carbon Conti which grabs fast and hard. Struggling to get a reasonable stretch fast enough, I forgot about the thread and mostly focused on the base tape. When done I noticed the thread pattern was waaaay off. With all embarrassment, I am showing a pic.

I tried to correct it by pulling the worst areas but it was already very difficult and my thumbs were beat (mostly because I have some tendon? issues on the inside of the thumbs from the handlebars) so I decided to sleep on it and decide next day if ride or pull. Of course next day all I wanted was to try the new wheels. The base tape is showing on both sides. So far it is fine and I don't notice handling issues but visually it is killing me. The base tape and the sew line were definitely not aligned. Next time I will get tan sidewalls. Provided the tan part is well centered, it should be easier to see what is happening in the rush of laying down the tube.



My OCD would force me to pull that off, and re-center it!!

stax
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:35 am

by stax

I put my first tubular on recently and it was slightly off centre. I used it a couple of times but looking at it whilst riding did my head in and I had to remove and re-mount.

Aaaand it was off centre on the other side...

Only just, but I'll need to go again when I can face it. If only it had been the rear...

willmac
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:33 am

by willmac

Carogna tape. no alignment issues, centre and remove the protective section and pump it up. I need a tyre lever to get them off when I want to do no issue with adhesion either

Kaboom
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm

by Kaboom

willmac wrote:Carogna tape. no alignment issues, centre and remove the protective section and pump it up. I need a tyre lever to get them off when I want to do no issue with adhesion either


I need a tire lever to get my tubies off too, even though I use Mastik One. I don't think I'm using too much glue either, probably i'm just weak...

I've read a lot of people raving about the carogna, I might just have to try it. It is pretty expensive though!

willmac
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:33 am

by willmac

True, glue is cheaper but tape is so simple, all the time in the world to centralise your tub and you can ride the next morning. Don't listen to matiposa on widths though. They say you should have the same width as your rim but a lot of new rims are actually wider than a 25mm tubular. The base tape is only 21mm and any extra width of tape will just be overhang and mess.

11.4
Posts: 1107
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am

by 11.4

First of all, your biggest worry should be that the tire went on without any hops or bumps. If you see a dip or bump as you spin the tire, you have an issue. There can often be a small amount that, on a training wheel at least, you just don't bother with. But your technique should get the wheel on with the entire tire equally tensioned so it doesn't bulge or crimp down at any point.

Second, when the tire is uninflected or nearly so, it's easy to mount the tire slightly off center for a few inches, but have the tire rotate into roundness when inflated. The tire casing looks just right, but the tread would have a wobble. In this case, it's more of an issue, especially if it's pronounced.

Third, as pointed out above, don't measure anything by the base tape -- especially on handmade tires they can be all over the place. If the tire tread doesn't have bumps or dips, the tread is centered, and the casing looks centered, you're good to go.

This thread wasn't about whether to use Carogna tape or Mastik One. I'm still experimenting with Carogna but gradually workout out some of the bugs. Done really well, Mastik One still outperforms it, but that would realistically only be an issue if you push the limits on very technical descents or turns or on the track. I'm thinking of writing up something longer on the relative merits and techniques before long, but it probably won't be till winter. As much as anything, it often comes down to whether each product is consistent enough and is stored so as not to give problems.

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

Ride it, don't look.
I did this once in a hurry and had to go drive for 30 hours to the race.
They were mounted so on the corners more of the crown was on the road vs sidewall. I kinda thought it was cool - almost like it was on purpose.

Greg66
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:06 pm

by Greg66

+1 to working off tread rather than the base tape, and +1 to balancing a wonky tread against your OCD.

The last front tub I mounted I managed to get the tread slightly crooked in one section. I could live with it visually but after a couple of days I noticed the affected patch making this weird squealching noise every revolution. If was the noise, not the visual, that got me, and made me rip it off and redo it.

Denavelo
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

I had nothing but bad vibes from riding a tubular with tape. If you're an aggressive descender, you can feel the tire move ever so slightly. Just enough to make me want to never ride tape again. People use it for cross, but you never hit 45-50mph on a cross course, in a full lean.

Tire Alert is notorious for sending you back repaired tubular tires, with the base tape all the way to one side, etc. I never really focus on basetape, just getting the tire on straight and immediately getting the hops out after mounting. Your worry should purely be the hops and side to side wobbles, if they're present.
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419 | Kogswell 650b Rando | Crema Cycles "Duo"

Kaboom
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm

by Kaboom

thanks for the input everyone!
300km so far on the tubies (I'm injured, so i don't get to ride much lately) and i haven't noticed any weird feeling on the corners on riding straight ahead... I hate looking at it, but so far my OCD is in check so I think it's gonna stay the way it is at least until I find myself really bored one weekend... With any luck that'll be pretty close to when the rear one is worn enough to toss it and i'll replace the rear and re-center the front.

by Weenie


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