ENVE 3.4 SES Warranty + Brake track vs Zipp

[clipsed]

Hi Guys, two part question.

1. I have just purchased a second hand bike with ENVE 3.4 SES wheels. They have done <500km and i have the original reciept from the previous owner. The wheels have NOT been registered online (so i can still do this with my own details).

Will i be able to send these wheels back to ENVE under warranty if they delaminate under braking? If i register them online under my own name surely that is enough of "proof" that i am the original owner? The receipt just has a cost on it, and the bike shop is in a different state.

2. My old wheels are 2015 V9 hub Zipp 303/404 combo. They definitely feel less stiff than the ENVE (spoke tension is less) however my main concern is delaminating the brake track.

i am an average descender, who brakes correctly. The steepest descents i do are 2-3km @ > 10%, up to 15%+. My zipps have remained perfect. I also do some longer 15km descents at 3-10% (but these require a lot less braking).

Should i be concerned? i am 78kg with a 6kg bike.

If the ENVE warranty will work, i will keep these wheels. If not, im afraid i might have to pass them on as i don't want to have a ruined brake track.

Thanks!

[MarkTwain]

Enve warranty dealings aside, what have you seen that makes think the 3.4's will glass transition/delaminate under heavy braking? Be specific with a recent example please. No "well my bud from across state said his friend saw on the internet..." type of proof.

[clipsed]

Enve warranty dealings aside, what have you seen that makes think the 3.4's will glass transition/delaminate under heavy braking? Be specific with a recent example please. No "well my bud from across state said his friend saw on the internet..." type of proof.

I would really prefer not to derail the thread.

1. Friend descending down Mt Bawbaw. He's A grade racer, top 10 on strava down the descent (just saying he's quite experienced, not a completely novice holding the brakes) and warped his relatively new SES 6.7's.

2. Friend down backside of glorious (Brisbane) fried his 3.4 SES's.

I'll ask them about if they were warrantied. I have pictures of the 6.7's...

[ergott]

Sounds like you should just stick with alloy wheels then.

Why deal in potentials if you ride demanding terrain like that?

[mimason]

I'd be riding tubulars there and nothing else. Have you ever front flatted at over 60kpm? It's a hair raising experience.

[ergott]

I'd be riding tubulars there and nothing else. Have you ever front flatted at over 60kpm? It's a hair raising experience.

No one mentioned clincher or tubular before you did. There are alloy and carbon both. As much as I completely trust carbon rims, no one can absolutely guaranty they will never fail due to excessive heat build up.

[Calnago]

Even though no one made specific mention of tubular versus carbon, I think it's fair to say that a clincher carbon rim is far more susceptible to failure than a similarly constructed tubular, simply because with a clincher the high pressure forces are really trying to push that rim apart at the bead, whereas with a tubular, the pressure is contained in the tire itself. The resins in the carbon at the brake track may potentially get a bit soft because of the heat but the pressure the tubular tire exerts is downward into the rim bed, and not outward to spread the rim apart as is the case with a clincher.

@clipsed: Just for clarification, were the two examples of failure that you give on clinchers or tubulars?

As to the warranty issue, well... since you have the receipt etc., I suppose you could try to pull a fast one and claim you are the original owner, BUT you are not. I suspect that if you called ENVE and explained the situation, they would not honor the warranty. If you lie and pretend to be the original owner, well... I don't even like to deal with people like that.
I've seen people try to sell stuff saying they have the original receipt therefore the item they are trying to sell is still under full warranty. Usually, but not always, that is simply not the case and it's often quite clearly stated that the warranty applies to the original purchaser only and is not transferrable. For some big ticket items like cars, warranties may be fully transferrable.

And I agree with @Ergott... No one can absolutely guarantee that something won't fail. Common sense should prevail here.

[clipsed]

I am referring to clinchers.

I guess there's a reason why enve is redesigning the brake track to be able to handle more heat.

[Denavelo]

Enve is quite simply the best brand in the US, when it comes to warranty issues. Seriously... My buddy had a damaged Enve 45 2.8 28h Carbon hoop and Enve no longer makes the hoops in 28h. They offered him 2.2 SES Clincher rims laced to his hubs, free of charge. I mean.... Those guys over there stand behind their product.

I stress you should always buy bike products, based on your riding terrain. If you have lots of steep descents that require lots of braking, you shouldn't buy Carbon Clincher/Tubular wheels. I have more confidence in carbon tubular, but it's still an inferior braking material compared to good ol alloy rims...

[MarkTwain]

Enve warranty dealings aside, what have you seen that makes think the 3.4's will glass transition/delaminate under heavy braking? Be specific with a recent example please. No "well my bud from across state said his friend saw on the internet..." type of proof.

I would really prefer not to derail the thread.

1. Friend descending down Mt Bawbaw. He's A grade racer, top 10 on strava down the descent (just saying he's quite experienced, not a completely novice holding the brakes) and warped his relatively new SES 6.7's.

2. Friend down backside of glorious (Brisbane) fried his 3.4 SES's.

I'll ask them about if they were warrantied. I have pictures of the 6.7's...

Given your post revolves around the warranty and the potential you might have for using it, I'd say it's right on topic. As would the resolution for these cases - rather than the typical 'my friend has something that broke'. Enve are known now for their quality product and after sales. The outcome of both of your claimed examples is as important as evidence of what happened.

[1Rich8]

I have personal experience with this exact issue. I bought a pair of ENVE 45 Classics w Chris King hubs. Amazing wheels! Love(d) them. Took them on a cycling trip to the French Alps to do the Haute Route last year, so around >100km per day, including lots of descending. The descents were usually long rather than steep and with good surfaces. After day 3 or 4 I noted early delamination in the front wheel. At all times I was using the recommended ENVE brake pads. Thankfully, I was able to use a spare. I asked the Mavic mechanic if he had seen similar problems. He said he had seen a couple of Enve wheels, a couple of Reynolds and scattered miscellaneous wheel delaminating over the week. He said he had not seen any Zipp or Mavic undergo the same issue, and was clear that he wasn't being biased, as the Mavic wheels had suffered different issues (which he described in detail). The delamination issue may be caused by the side wall construction used by Enve, where as Zipp and Mavic use greater reinforcement.
Either way, it shared the hell out of me, considering the often high drops over each hairpin.
Advice? Not the best wheels to take for long descents, but otherwise sublime!

[spartan]

this is where independent testing works.

tour mag international tested the best carbon clinchers on a alpine descent.

best campy , mavic second, zipp third.. all the rest had catastrophic failures.

enve for the price do not deliver.. sorry fan boys..

[tnc1970]

this is where independent testing works.

tour mag international tested the best carbon clinchers on a alpine descent.

best campy , mavic second, zipp third.. all the rest had catastrophic failures.

enve for the price do not deliver.. sorry fan boys..

I found a test at Tour: http://www.tour-magazin.de/komponenten/ ... 34191.html
Is this the one you refer in your post?

[spartan]

yes...

these wheels are made in italy. same braking tech as the hyperon ..
they do not need rim tape so save at least 50gm..

pretty cheap on starbike.com

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/fulcrum- ... et-review/

this is where independent testing works.

tour mag international tested the best carbon clinchers on a alpine descent.

best campy , mavic second, zipp third.. all the rest had catastrophic failures.

enve for the price do not deliver.. sorry fan boys..

I found a test at Tour: http://www.tour-magazin.de/komponenten/ ... 34191.html
Is this the one you refer in your post?

[wingguy]

enve for the price do not deliver.. sorry fan boys..

I found a test at Tour: http://www.tour-magazin.de/komponenten/ ... 34191.html
Is this the one you refer in your post?[/quote]

I may be missing something but I couldn't see an Enve wheel in that test lineup...