Wide Rims and Tires: Real Measurements

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
NickJHP
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

I recently measured three new and unmounted 650Bx48 tyres in my possession. Compass Switchback Hill with standard (not extralight) casing, WTB Horizon (nominal size actually 650Bx47), and Panaracer GravelKing slick. All three are tubeless compatible.

I measured weight, tread thickness, and width and height above rim sidewall when mounted on some MCFK 25mm internal width 27.5 rims. The tread thickness I derived by measuring the thickness with calipers at the centre of the tread and at the sidewall, and subtracting the 2nd value from the first. The Compass casing at the sidewall was 0.5mm thick, the WTB and Panaracer both had 0.8mm casing. The weight I measured on my kitchen scales, so I only took it to the nearest 10g. The tyres were inflated to 40 psi for the width and height measurements. Width and height will increase slightly when the tyres have been inflated for a while - these measurements were with unused newly-inflated tyres:

Compass SBH: weight 450g, tread thickness 2.7mm, width 48.5mm, height 46mm

WTB Horizon: weight 510g, tread thickness 3.8mm, width 47mm, height 45.5mm

Panaracer Gravelking: weight 540g, tread thickness 3.9mm, width 48mm, height 43.5mm

emotive
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Great roadplus tyre comparison, thanks @NickJHP

rides4beer
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:04 am
Resurrect old thread with more data:

Light-bicycle 56mm deep, 30mm external width and 23mm internal width.
@70psi
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c 30.45mm (stretched)
Continental GP Force 3 25c 30.1mm (stretched)
Continental GP5000 28c 30.15mm (new) -> the GP5000 28c size only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII 25c.
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.06mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.8mm (stretched)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 30.89mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 31.?? mm (stretched) -> lost the measurement.
Do you happen to have a 25c GP5000 you could try on that wheel? I’m thinking about getting a set, and already have the tires, wondering if they’ll work. Would probably be better for the 105% rule, right? Guessing they’d measure around 28mm?

Hexsense
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

rides4beer wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 am
Do you happen to have a 25c GP5000 you could try on that wheel? I’m thinking about getting a set, and already have the tires, wondering if they’ll work. Would probably be better for the 105% rule, right? Guessing they’d measure around 28mm?
No i don't.
I plan to get one once i worn down my two tires of my stocked GP force III on front wheel.
Which will be a long while since my front tire wear rate is so slow.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3473
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

NickJHP wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:34 am
I recently measured three new and unmounted 650Bx48 tyres in my possession. Compass Switchback Hill with standard (not extralight) casing, WTB Horizon (nominal size actually 650Bx47), and Panaracer GravelKing slick. All three are tubeless compatible.

I measured weight, tread thickness, and width and height above rim sidewall when mounted on some MCFK 25mm internal width 27.5 rims. The tread thickness I derived by measuring the thickness with calipers at the centre of the tread and at the sidewall, and subtracting the 2nd value from the first. The Compass casing at the sidewall was 0.5mm thick, the WTB and Panaracer both had 0.8mm casing. The weight I measured on my kitchen scales, so I only took it to the nearest 10g. The tyres were inflated to 40 psi for the width and height measurements. Width and height will increase slightly when the tyres have been inflated for a while - these measurements were with unused newly-inflated tyres:

Compass SBH: weight 450g, tread thickness 2.7mm, width 48.5mm, height 46mm

WTB Horizon: weight 510g, tread thickness 3.8mm, width 47mm, height 45.5mm

Panaracer Gravelking: weight 540g, tread thickness 3.9mm, width 48mm, height 43.5mm
thanks for that... I'll add.

Easton EA70AX 650b (24 internal)
1. Maxxis Refuse 27.5x2.0 measured 51.1 (40psi)
2 Donnelly MSO Xplor 650bx42 measured 43.2 (40psi)

Nice to know about those WTB horizons... I'm thinking about byways and maybe Enve G27 rims... The maxxis were too big for the rear of my frame. they just touched occasionally.

rides4beer
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

Hexsense wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:55 pm
rides4beer wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:34 am
Do you happen to have a 25c GP5000 you could try on that wheel? I’m thinking about getting a set, and already have the tires, wondering if they’ll work. Would probably be better for the 105% rule, right? Guessing they’d measure around 28mm?
No i don't.
I plan to get one once i worn down my two tires of my stocked GP force III on front wheel.
Which will be a long while since my front tire wear rate is so slow.
No problem, I don't think the 56x30mm wheels will fit my brakes anyway, prob have to go with the 46x28mm or 55x25mm set.

TXkestrel
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:07 pm

by TXkestrel

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:04 am
Resurrect old thread with more data:

Light-bicycle 56mm deep, 30mm external width and 23mm internal width.
@70psi
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c 30.45mm (stretched)
Continental GP Force 3 25c 30.1mm (stretched)
Continental GP5000 28c 30.15mm (new) -> the GP5000 28c size only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII 25c.
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.06mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.8mm (stretched)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 30.89mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 31.?? mm (stretched) -> lost the measurement.
what are your favorite tires to run on these wheels so far? I just put in my order for this wheelset and am trying to plan what tire to go with. Also, im curious, do you think a 23c tire would be safe to run on this wheelset for crits, training, etc?

Hexsense
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

TXkestrel wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:56 am
what are your favorite tires to run on these wheels so far? I just put in my order for this wheelset and am trying to plan what tire to go with. Also, im curious, do you think a 23c tire would be safe to run on this wheelset for crits, training, etc?
For 21mm internal width, wide 23c like 4000sII and GP Attack III are acceptable.

For 23mm internal width. Forget 23c except for dedicated TT event, while it works, it's pushing the limit to far for these rims. 23c tire on 23mm internal width rims sound too wrong IMO.

My current Favourite is without doubt GP5000.
Already have 28c in the rear. I'll get 25c in the front once i worn my current front tire.

nachetetm
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm

by nachetetm

Hexsense wrote:
TXkestrel wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:56 am
what are your favorite tires to run on these wheels so far? I just put in my order for this wheelset and am trying to plan what tire to go with. Also, im curious, do you think a 23c tire would be safe to run on this wheelset for crits, training, etc?
For 21mm internal width, wide 23c like 4000sII and GP Attack III are acceptable.

For 23mm internal width. Forget 23c except for dedicated TT event, while it works, it's pushing the limit to far for these rims. 23c tire on 23mm internal width rims sound too wrong IMO.

My current Favourite is without doubt GP5000.
Already have 28c in the rear. I'll get 25c in the front once i worn my current front tire.
Aren't we pushing this wide rim thing too far? Both 21 and 23 mm wide rims seem too much to me for such a narrow tire. Use a wider tire or a narrower rim. I can't see any improvement from this combo that deserves the risk of having an accident due to the tire getting of the rim.
Performance usually has a bell shape. Push it too much in one direction and you will probably fall out of the optimum.

Hexsense
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Go ahead and argue with Cannondale who spec (narrow Vittoria Rubino) 23c on 21mm internal width out of the factory on System Six. It only measure around 26mm mounted. Unlike GP4000sII 23c that mount on 21mm internal width to 27.3mm.
HED who also recommend tire width=internal rim width+2mm for best aero performance.
Specialized that (on some model) spec 24c tire (that runs narrower than Conti 23c) on 20.x mm internal width.

When any of those have safety recall, then we take a look of how still within a reason wide 23c on 21mm internal width and 25c on 23mm internal width are not safe. Which part of thehigh quality tight kevlar tire bead and tight tubeless compatible rims could create potential accident issue.

But i agree that there should be a sensible limit though. Since no one shows that 23c on 23mm internal width is totally safe. Then we keep that as a combo that push the limit too far. Unlike 23c on 21mm internal width that have been proven by companies.

deepakvrao
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:44 am

by deepakvrao

Hexsense wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:04 am
Resurrect old thread with more data:

Light-bicycle 56mm deep, 30mm external width and 23mm internal width.
@70psi
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c 30.45mm (stretched)
Continental GP Force 3 25c 30.1mm (stretched) -> near identical to gp 4000sII 25c in size
Continental GP5000 28c 30.15mm (new) -> the GP5000 28c size only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII 25c.
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.06mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.8mm (stretched)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 30.89mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 31.?? mm (stretched) -> lost the measurement.
Which would you say would be the easiest tubeless tyre to mount on the LB 56 rims?

rides4beer
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

Light Bicycle 46mm, 21mm internal
25mm GP5000 - 28.2mm (stretched)
23mm GP4KS2 - 26.1mm (new)

dim
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

Trek Emonda SL6
Miyata One Thousand

Terrordact
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:30 pm

by Terrordact

Light Bicycle 56mm deep 23mm internal 30mm external w/ GP4kII 25mm tires = 29.7mm

BoSoxYacht
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:39 pm

by BoSoxYacht

Light Bicycle 56mm deep (23.09mm internal, 30.47mm external) and 30mm Schwalbe G-One Speed tires, measured 31.65mm @ 60psi.

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