Vittoria Graphene Plus tyres

[moonoi]

So in the ultimate n=1 and confirmation bias you've found they're thin with no puncture protection - with anecdotal engineering assessment being that Graphene is bullshit.

Got it.

No, that's just you commenting on a 2 plus year old comment thinking you know the full story.

Note I did say it was my personal view, so yes it is anecdotal, I had a crap experience and put them in the bin, just like the majority of others would do in the same situation, no amount of engineers telling how great something is, is going to trump your own experience and I suspect you know that.

I will say for the short time they were on the bike they rolled well and I did like their performance, but getting a critical cut just a short time in to using them means that it isn't worth the risk.

And how I came to the decision Graphene is just marketing bs in tyre applications isn't on just my own anecdotal evidence, it's based on local data from the cycling community here (yes a larger amount of anecdotal evidence, since no one is going to serious research in to it, but it does remove individuals biases), where the increased puncture protection promised by the addition of Graphene hasn't materialised. That includes those using the Corsa Speed as well.

No one denies that the latest generation tyres roll well, but at the same time there is no decrease, in fact we've an increase in the number of punctures locally over the previous gen Vittoria tyres. Some are happy to accept that because they like the feel and lower rolling resistance, I on the other hand don't want to be changing tyres every few hundred Kms.

Also note that at the time I tried them, the control version of the tyres wasn't available, maybe they're better, certainly I think they are more a direct comparison to the GP4k/GP5k than the speed version.

I actually preferred the old generation Vittoria tyres (Open Corsa/Pave), since they offered the best protection, rolling resistance and feel for my use case. Which was why I was excited to try these in the first place.


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[Tinea Pedis]

No one I know bins a tyre after 90km, unless the cut is big enough for tube to push through. Which if that is the case, plenty of other tyres (including a race tyre, like the Turbo) would have been slashed as well.

Control is not a more direct version. In fact they have a few more layers for added protection. So in both cases roll a little slower and provide a little more protection - at loss of some road feel. But this is your anecdotal story so you're welcome to say they're more direct.

Time actually plays no role in this and me knowing the full 'story'. As you rode for 90 whole km before binning them, discussed above. And which I found quite baffling. The Graphene was never touted as being a game changer for puncture protection either (hence the Control models)

https://www.vittoria.com/us/rubino-pro-all-round.html

however is has made a considerable difference in grip and road feel. So you're upset and calling bullshit on something not even Vittoria is (or ever was) stating. These are designed to be a very solid training tyre - that you could even race on - not a gatorskin.

None of this is personal. None of this is time dependant. Safe riding.

[moonoi]

The Graphene was never touted as being a game changer for puncture protection either (hence the Control models)

https://www.vittoria.com/us/rubino-pro-all-round.html

however is has made a considerable difference in grip and road feel. So you're upset and calling bullshit on something not even Vittoria is (or ever was) stating. These are designed to be a very solid training tyre - that you could even race on - not a gatorskin.

None of this is personal. None of this is time dependant. Safe riding.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, on launch the addition of graphene was touted to improve durability, you can see that on hundreds of articles doing a simple google search, and locally (Thailand) it was also being stated that they had improved puncture protection even by the LBS.

And yes the cut was such that I had to boot it to prevent it pinch flatting the the replacement tube, I didn't bother trying again with another since I've never had any other tyre fail in the same way, on the same roads, in the same conditions and my LBS didn't have any stock left even if I wanted to at the time.

The reason I feel more that the direct comparison is the control is the GP4k has a vectran breaker, whilst the Speed has nothing.

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[Tinea Pedis]

Durability is not puncture protection.

I got the media release from Vitttoria. If media want to make the false equivalence that durable = better puncture protection then that is on them.

[moonoi]

Durability is not puncture protection.

I got the media release from Vitttoria. If media want to make the false equivalence that durable = better puncture protection then that is on them.

Let me quote then from the Vittoria website, which makes quite clear it does equal better puncture protection

"Graphene is a material which has exceptional characteristics that make Vittoria products advantageous for many different purposes and uses; it derives from carbon, more precisely from graphite.

Prior to the advanced development of Graphene, there was always the requirement of choosing between optimizing, or aiming at, speed, grip, durability and puncture protection. Effectively, the introduction of Graphene in tires, allows for natural material barriers of rubber to be removed. This means that there is no longer the need for such compromises between speed, grip, durability and puncture resistance."

https://www.vittoria.com/eu/graphene-technology

[petromyzon]

You'll not get very far arguing on the internet about which tyre is more or less puncture resistant. I bet the manufacturers struggle to generate scientifically credible real world data in their own testing.

My criteria for choosing a tubular:

1. Modern compound for low rolling resistance and grip (i.e. something from the post Black Chili era)
2. Latex tube (no point running tubs that are 3-4W/wheel slower than clinchers once you've taken glue, aero and tube in to account)
3. Traditional construction (because I like it and subjectively it feels better)

The reality is that this leaves you with Vittoria and maybe WolfPack as options. I've had good luck with the former, keen to try the latter.

[moonoi]

Well, not actually arguing about which is more puncture resistant, rather about whether Graphene actually provides the improvement that Vittoria claim in terms of puncture resistance.

I was also accused of "calling bullshit on something not even Vittoria is (or ever was) stating." Yet there it is clearly for all to see on Vittorias own website, obviously no one likes to be accused of lying, so thats all there is to it.

[Tinea Pedis]

None of your quote is explicit - or even implicit - that Graphene = better puncture protection.

It's a sweeping statement, which is certainly more true of their Control line. Also not specific to the tyre you've had your experience with (which I linked). You've been hoisted by your own petard.

[moonoi]

Now you're just talking nonsense, I get that you have a relationship with Vittoria, but your own bias is really showing through now. I get you don't want to be wrong, but simply put you are, why?

That is their statement, on their website, specifically about their Graphene technology, not a specific model of tyre.

So it is not wrong for myself, media and others (including the bike shops that sell them) to understand that the addition of said technology is there to improve puncture resistance regardless of the model of tyre.

Also to note, you didn't link to the tyre I had my experience with, that version wasn't available at the time.

Anyway, thanks for your time, since the tyre you linked to is different from the one I tried, I'll probably give it a try once my current set is worn out, seeing as you say it is supposed to be a GP4k equivalent (which I don't like at all btw, but is the benchmark whether I like it or not).

[Marin]

Plus, you want to have a GP*5*k equivalent these days, and that's gonna be freaking hard.

[Hexsense]

No one I know bins a tyre after 90km, unless the cut is big enough for tube to push through. Which if that is the case, plenty of other tyres (including a race tyre, like the Turbo) would have been slashed as well.

I bin two Michelin Power Competition 23c after it got big 2cm slash in 45km ride.
Another 25c got slashed in 60km ride. , Separate occursion but both having a sharp tube explosion sound when it got flat. I know Vittoria are more durable than Michelin Power Competition. But this also happen on a tire that many people run fine on their road.
So just because a tire is perfect on your road doesn't mean it is good everywhere else.

Vittoria Corsa G+ holds up okay on my local road too in dry but they tend to get flat more in wet. Somehow Continental hold up way better on my local road. If i clearly see that a tire i have would give me flat fest on my local road. I would take them off rather then keep feeding it new tube every other weeks too.

[Tinea Pedis]

Now you're just talking nonsense, I get that you have a relationship with Vittoria, but your own bias is really showing through now. I get you don't want to be wrong, but simply put you are, why?

That is their statement, on their website, specifically about their Graphene technology, not a specific model of tyre.

So it is not wrong for myself, media and others (including the bike shops that sell them) to understand that the addition of said technology is there to improve puncture resistance regardless of the model of tyre.

Also to note, you didn't link to the tyre I had my experience with, that version wasn't available at the time.

It is a link to the same tyre you used - goodness there is even a pic of it. Back when I wrote the piece I had no relationship with them. It was literally a mate who gave them my details and said "send this dude some tyres, he'll ride them and report on them". Which I did. And actually called bullshit on their speed claims (but this came before their later release Corsa Speed release, which have been proven to be fast).

But I get it, being a anonymous forum user means you're free to act the prat. Create strawman claims, etc. Bravo.

seeing as you say it is supposed to be a GP4k equivalent (which I don't like at all btw, but is the benchmark whether I like it or not).

What I actually said was

Just picked up a pair of the Rubino Pro Speed 25mm G+ clinchers, they feel like they might be a bit fragile

"fragile" based off what?

My experience - and that of those using them - has been anything but that. Wear really well and take a long time to cut up - even on gravel. They're designed to be a better ride feel version of the GP4000 series. With better wear and grip. Cannot fault any of those claims so far.

and before you fire back at me, this is the definition of 'equivalent'

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... equivalent

Given the Rubino has a higher TPI on top of all the other properties, it is like I said. A better version of the GP4000 series - in the sense of being the tyre you could train on and race on without a sacrifice in either domain. They are in no way equal in anything really.


But thanks for the fun. Here I thought anonymous trolling was only still fun on Twitter.

[Tinea Pedis]

Plus, you want to have a GP*5*k equivalent these days, and that's gonna be freaking hard.

Have they really been out long enough for any kind of long term testing? Given the north is snowing and they took longer to make it to places like here (Australia) for crew to test.

A mate has a pair but only has 1500km or so on them. Fine so far but not long enough for him to make any big calls. Personally I am keen to try a pair as I was a GP4000s user for years. Average ride feel and all.

[Hexsense]

Plus, you want to have a GP*5*k equivalent these days, and that's gonna be freaking hard.

Have they really been out long enough for any kind of long term testing? Given the north is snowing and they took longer to make it to places like here (Australia) for crew to test.

Without long term testing, i can already tell that it is not a clean upgrade from GP4ksII for some.
N=3, The rubber compound is softer and more compliance. Still no issue with cut or puncture so far.
However, they seems to wear down faster than 4ksII. 4ksII tire might looks new after the first few short ride, with useless excess center rubber ridge intact just to look brand new. 5k after the first ride doesn't look new. All excess rubber ridge in the center all disappear in the first single ride.
Also they actually weight more than GP4K in the equivalent real size. For example, GP5K 28c weight less than GP4Ks 28c but it is much narrower. More closer to GP4Ks 25c which weight less than GP5K 28c.

So GP5K is mostly an upgrade from GP4KsII in many ways but it not a clear better in everything, clear upgrade tire.

[Tinea Pedis]

Interesting to hear. Appreciated.