Velocite filament wound rims

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vmajor
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by vmajor

Here are some news. We are nearly done with the filament wound version of the 507 rims. They are rather different to any other rim on the planet due to being largely made by a machine, not by hand.

http://blog.velocite-bikes.com/2017/01/ ... wide-tires

by Weenie


jlaitinen
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by jlaitinen

vmajor wrote:Here are some news. We are nearly done with the filament wound version of the 507 rims. They are rather different to any other rim on the planet due to being largely made by a machine, not by hand.

http://blog.velocite-bikes.com/2017/01/ ... wide-tires


Really nice to hear, thinking about your 507's as the rims for my next build. Lets hope that you can provide the rims in schedule.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

vmajor wrote:Here are some news. We are nearly done with the filament wound version of the 507 rims. They are rather different to any other rim on the planet due to being largely made by a machine, not by hand.

http://blog.velocite-bikes.com/2017/01/ ... wide-tires


WHOA, you guys just opened a can of worms! This industry has been trying very hard to shift from "V" shape to "U" shape to yield maximum aero as well as stability in cross-winds.

Quote from http://blog.velocite-bikes.com/2017/01/ ... wide-tires
"In our (and others’ see new Enve rims) research we found that “U” shape rims do not have good aerodynamics with wider tires."

@Victor: Could you provide a link to latest research from Enve that have the same finding (extensive CFD work) when it comes to shifting from "U" shape back to "V" shape?

Image

Quote from http://blog.velocite-bikes.com/2017/01/ ... wide-tires
You will note that the Venn 507 do not have the currently popular “U” shape. This is not an accident but a result of extensive CFD work. In our (and others’ see new Enve rims) research we found that “U” shape rims do not have good aerodynamics with wider tires, and that the only way to make the “U” profile rims more aerodynamic when used with wide tires was to make a very wide rim that would also have to be deeper than 50mm. We did not want to do that since with increase in depth and width the surface area of the rim increases and therefore the rim weight goes up.
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vmajor
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by vmajor

:) hahaha it is not that much or a surprise really...and it was not the industry, but a few innovators and their "fans" that realized that handling was actually very important, not just outright aerodynamics at zero degrees yaw.

As to Enve's research, I have no access to their work, but you can see their results. Their new rims all have a very similar shape to what I came up with. No we did not copy them, it just took a while for me to get the r&d done with and make functional prototypes, this is why it may look like we are following. We are not.

There was a discussion that I hijacked in WW and that you actually posted in that covers the discussion about rim shapes...have a look here: viewtopic.php?p=1278580#p1278580

V.

Marin
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by Marin

In the latest aero wheel test, the Reynolds wheels with a narrow V-Shape scored top marks in the handling-in-crosswinds category while still have good aero at 0 yaw.

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vmajor
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by vmajor

That too. Paul Lew published some nice work regarding his design choices. Also, "V" shape (not really "V" shape) always had excellent aerodynamics at 0 yaw. Even Zipp's own data that they published showed that the "old" designs were a little more aero at "0" compared to the newer "U" shaped rims.

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Tomstr
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by Tomstr

Marin wrote:In the latest aero wheel test, the Reynolds wheels with a narrow V-Shape scored top marks in the handling-in-crosswinds category while still have good aero at 0 yaw.


Do you have a link to that test? Sounds interesting.

As for the rim shape, I have Edco's AeroSport 45 which is like the latest Reynolds in terms of shape. Their crosswind handling is ace but their aero benefit (keeping them up to speed or adding speed) starts earlier than the 45km/h required for the U rim shapes.

They look filament wound too but they're not exactly spilling the beans on how they are made. :-)
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antonioiglesius
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by antonioiglesius

vmajor wrote:As to Enve's research, I have no access to their work, but you can see their results. Their new rims all have a very similar shape to what I came up with. No we did not copy them, it just took a while for me to get the r&d done with and make functional prototypes, this is why it may look like we are following. We are not.


Does this mean that if Enve had patented the shape, they can pursue legal action against you? Conversely, in the case of the Pinarello downtube shape, since they do not have access to your research, they could have taken a while to get the R&D down, ended up with the same shape, and didn't actually infringe your patent?

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that the old "V" shape is back and it's back for good!

"In our (and others’ see new Enve rims) research we found that “U” shape rims do not have good aerodynamics with wider tires, and that the only way to make the “U” profile rims more aerodynamic when used with wide tires was to make a very wide rim that would also have to be deeper than 50mm."

How wide of a rim are we talking about when you say "very wide"?

Latest Enve http://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar is 25mm inner and 31mm outer. Even gravel wheels are not that wide.

Correct me if I'm wrong but shallower wheels (e.g. 38mm) perform just fine in "U" shape profile. Once we enter deeper wheel (e.g. 50mm), "V" shape holds the candle?

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Last edited by mpulsiv on Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by Nefarious86

To be fair, laces have come back too ;)
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moonoi
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by moonoi

antonioiglesius wrote:
vmajor wrote:As to Enve's research, I have no access to their work, but you can see their results. Their new rims all have a very similar shape to what I came up with. No we did not copy them, it just took a while for me to get the r&d done with and make functional prototypes, this is why it may look like we are following. We are not.


Does this mean that if Enve had patented the shape, they can pursue legal action against you? Conversely, in the case of the Pinarello downtube shape, since they do not have access to your research, they could have taken a while to get the R&D down, ended up with the same shape, and didn't actually infringe your patent?


It doesn't matter how they ended up with the same shape, whether through willful copying, or separate R&D that resulted in the same shape. It infringes because the patent is already registered.

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Tomstr
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by Tomstr

I think the old V shape (think the first Mavic Cosmic) is gone except for Lightweight and RZR for weight reasons. It works well at 0 jaw and has little drag, the newer shape is wider at the bottom up to the middle and then gets smaller towards the end. The benefits are that they produce less drag due to the ends that are almost sharp and also less drag at yaw.

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StradaJon
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by StradaJon

Paul Lew is now involved with EDCO and his designs are filtering through the range now. The fat-pointy profile is there to be seen.
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Beaumont
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by Beaumont

This technology seems promising (although not everyone is that optimistic - https://www.instagram.com/p/zpx26PvER-/?modal=true), but those quotes on bikerumor are not encouraging to look for my credit card:
Eugene Chan says:
August 22, 2016 at 4:09 pm
Unfortunately I have a less than ideal anecdote. After roughly 2000 miles on these rims since late Spring, my front rim has a lenghthwise crack between two spoke holes that continues partial down both sides of the rim profile. It’s possible this is an impact crack, but I am running wide tires with a rider+bike weight of under 170 pounds. I’m hoping this was a freak occurrence because its certainly nice having more affordable carbon wheel options out there. I’ve just asked my wheelbuilder to contact Velocite/Victor about my case and will provide updates as needed.

Velaro says:
August 23, 2016 at 2:44 am
Welcome to the club. My rear rim also broke last weekend after about 15 km into the ride. Walking home was not funny. The rim flange separated on one side on a length of about 10 cm which caused the tire to bulge out. I always controlled the tyre pressure (25 mm tubeless tire setup) before every ride and never went over 7 bars.

See https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/08/22/project-road-bike-rolling-venns-filament-wound-woven-carbon-fiber-wheels/

Hope to see more reviews soon..

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vmajor
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by vmajor

You will find both of these mentions much earlier in this thread. Both are for our first generation rims made in 2015. Yes, the process has stabilized a lot since then.

by Weenie


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