Velocite filament wound rims

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

I am not sure what you are asking. Do you mean how much clearance do you need between the brake pads and the rim surface? That is not actually up to us, but is determined by your brake calipers, brake pads that you are using (if not ours, and even then we have low profile pads if your clearance is zero), how flexible your frame is, how flexible your brake cable housing is, how flexible your brake caliper arms are.

The actual distance between the brake pads and the rim surface that will work for you is a multivariate problem so there cannot be a single recommendation, or any static information that would be valid.

V.

by Weenie


Shuddup
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:09 am

by Shuddup

Hi Victor,

Apologies for not being clear. I was asking about the distance of the brake pad on the brake track from edge of the rim, not distance from the brake track. Some manufacturers recommend 4mm (?) from the edge.

User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

Ah, I see. Just make sure the brake pads contacts only the brake track and not the tire or the rim body. I do not know why other manufacturers would have any recommendation beyond this.

Shuddup
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:09 am

by Shuddup

Great :thumbup: Thanks for clearing that up.

Toby
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 am

by Toby

vmajor wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:33 pm
Ah, I see. Just make sure the brake pads contacts only the brake track and not the tire or the rim body. I do not know why other manufacturers would have any recommendation beyond this.
The thinking is to put the compressive force across the rim bed instead of the unsupported (except by the tire and pneumatic pressure) bead hooks. I know the November Rails recommended that.

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1208
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Could anyone chime in on the braking performance of Venn Rev 35 clincher with stock pads and/or SwissStop Black Prince? I'd like to know how they perform in dry condition, next to Bora 35 wheels or any aluminum wheels, for this matter. I know for a fact that Bora 35 braking performance is outstanding.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

Don't use SwissStop Black Prince as our test results are not good. They cause hotspot overheating across the range of our rims, new Var technology rims included even though they use an entirely different resin system and are otherwise very highly heat resistant.

the jackel
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: London

by the jackel

mpulsiv wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:39 pm
Could anyone chime in on the braking performance of Venn Rev 35 clincher with stock pads and/or SwissStop Black Prince? I'd like to know how they perform in dry condition, next to Bora 35 wheels or any aluminum wheels, for this matter. I know for a fact that Bora 35 braking performance is outstanding.
I've had these rims for almost 2 years. Initially they came with a blue pad which was ok but not great when compared to rims from farsports. I recently got hold of some red pads which I believe are the new stock pads. They are significantly better. They don't have immediate grab but if used as a carbon brake is supposed to be ie short and strong pulls on the lever then they stop as well as an alloy rim. I've just returned from the Pyrenees and after long technical descents the rims were hot to touch but not so hot you couldn't touch them. They were significantly cooler than alloy wheels used by my friends who were close behind.

Harpoon
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: UK

by Harpoon

I came across these CCR rims which have both filament and UD carbon rims.

http://www.ccrcarbonwheel.com/html/product/index.html

Are CCR part of Venn / Velocite? The rim profiles look to be the same as the ones on the Venn website.

romanmoser
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

Yes they are the same

User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

...before and in case this veers towards a "secret" type of discussion, no it is not a secret :) We exhibited together at the Taichung Bike Week (the major bicycle OEM show) and at the last year's Taipei Cycle Show. Some of the rim brochures carry both sets of contact details.

The filament winding IP is mostly ours, and I personally have two patents on it. The rim making IP and the CTL (UD) tech is CCR's. The result is the Rev (filament wound) rims.

Var rims come from a different factory. First rim from the Var range will be the Var 77 which is protptyping now.

romanmoser
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

Hey guys . It's a bit long sorry :)

Image
Image

Wanted to share my positive and negative experiences on VENN 35TCD rims .
My purpose here is not to slam this company, but share my experience . If you or someone you know is thinking about buying rims or wheels from Velocite/VENN I would hope my story will help give some feedback and hopefully help make a decision to either proceed with this company or look elsewhere. I've waited a long time to post this , thinking that things would resolve faster . Thinking that I might prejudiciate me getting new rims under warranty for the second time . But I think it's too important from a security point of view and I don't get why a recall has been done.
I lost money to have my wheels rebuild once. I will loose money again with 50mm warranty rims to have them rebuild. And Velocite/Venn won't reimburse that as well as months wihtout riding but that's not the most important : the most important is health and safety !

THE BEGINING : I bought back in the day when Velocite was developping the SYN , 2 sets of VENN 35TCD rims . I had them build by a professional wheel builder in my aera that I trust more than my mother . He has build me mtb wheels and rim brake wheels and I haven't ever had anything to complain about . There was nothing like that in term of caracteristics be it rims or wheels so I was more than happy to find some nice rims to build .
POSITIVE : - they were in the weight range annouced , set up tubeless easily with a simple floor pump ( schwalbe pro one and notubes sealant ) .
- they feel compliant , not subject to wind , feel fast for a low profil set of rim
- the filament rim is a nice idea

NEGATIVE : - they break actually two time , each time first at the same place nipple and the front rims broke down first with the rear wheel following .
- then the side of the rim moved on the front rim it moves towards the inside of the rim, really strange
- it took ages to get new rims ( not 100% their fault I would say 75% the 25 % are due to customs issues they are not responsible for)
- first they sended from taiwan only 2 rims instead of the 4 rims needed under warranty ...
- the second pair needed was late at least of 50 days ( 100% their fault this time) . I lost the count . Factory was busy or I don't know . So they don't have rims in stock for warranty you have to wait a lot of time

Now I had the first warranty rims finally build in may . You can see from the screenshots even without riding on the 16th may 2018, something is wrong .
I told Victor the boss , because the contact in taiwan Miss Wu doesn't seem so interested in technical details : that the rims were cracking during building . Max tension is 120 kg , my builder only tension them to 110 kg .


5 days later Victor answered me and says it could be clearcoat only , and to take care just in case if the spokes holes actually cracked .


Mid July , I recognized the signs of a faillure to come and send informations again
I have no issues with Victor being in Croatia and not being availabel 24/24 to respond . And I am happy to have warranty replacement again and apologies .

But there is clearly something wrong with the VENN35 TCD . I had seen failures on the first generation . No recalls , so I had chance when I found while not riding that my rims were cracking . It could have result in a nasty crash . Venn in Taiwan also seems to put first their bigs buyers it's ok ( probike kit , OEM ) , I am just a student who bought 4 rims .
But how can it be possible not having any rims in stock for warranties issues ? Come on that's not serious . After the faillure of the 6 VENN35 TCD rims I had build , I would have tought of a recall or something for others users but no . I saw @jever98 had issues too with his VENN35TCD recently . Be carefull the new ones could fail too !

So on the 17th Juli , I contacted Miss Wu from Venn in Taiwan to see if it was possible to have VENN 507 TCD rims , the newer ones .
Because I had no trust anymore on the VENN 35TCD . Victor kinldy had allowed me to ask for the 50,7mm rims under warranty .
The 507 TCD are 74$ expensiver for 4 rims , first I was told I could have these rims if I payed . I of course say no cause it's your fault if my rims have issues and failed on me several time . She then kinldy says to me it's ok we will take at our freys the difference . So I was happy

But other issue do you know what ? The production line is already at full capacity so the lead time will be AT LEAST of 2 months !!! :o
So again if you had bought 507 rims , they seem to not have any rims for warranty issues in stock or at least for me not a big client .
Take 2 months AT least + shipping customs ( 10 to 15 days ) + time to have them rebuild
= Nearly 3 months without wheels !!!!!

A 100% rate of failures on the 6 rims build .
I am student , I have lost 850 € thanks to bpost recently who lost me a package and I contacted the ombudsman to see if I could have at least a part back .
I don't have rims brakes anymore cause they are only a few frames I would like to ride with rims brake now
AND only if I get back to road racing .

So I have to buy a cheap set of aluminium disc wheels while waiting for my nice carbon wheels to be rebuild ?
Cost ? 300€ again from my pocket + all the wheelbuiling extra cost to have my wheels rebuild because of poor quality or QC I don't know ?
Or found a shop that could lend me if I pay some thru axles disc road wheels ? ( not happening )
Or ride indoor on zwift for 3 months during summer the best time of the year to ride outside ?

So my advice don't buy rims wheels from Velocite/VENN except the 507 wich seem to be fautless for now ... and the new 70 75 mm wheels in project
Their others rims are outdated by Light Bicycle and Yishun who have nicer profils, weight , specs . And I didn't had issue with my LB rims when I had an MTB .
I risked my life riding these rims and that I have an issue with

Thanks for reading and I'll know if the risk I took by writting this , has caused me troubles .
No harsh feeling towards VENN and Victor who 's a nice guy and has developped a great bike the SYN witch was ahead of his time , I really think .

But this kind of amateurism is one of the reason why bike industry is so messy I think
And I don't pretend I would do better .

Regards
Last edited by romanmoser on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

...that's a long post. It is unfortunately a fair summary of what you went through however I believed that the issue has been resolved.

I'm also not sure if you should be sharing staff discussions in public.

Regarding the Rev 35 issues, there was a lamination problem which affected this particular production line.

Lastly we did not deny a single warranty claim for similar failures meaning that we do in fact aim to do the right thing.

What you went through is rather unfortunate, however it does not reflect what generally happens.

romanmoser
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

Hey Victor !
Solved in theory yes ;)
In practice it's a least 2 and half to 3 months again without wheels .
And again expenses labor to have them rebuild .
I will of course update my quote

It felt like I had to speak about my case .
If you could share statistics about the Rev35 , it could be interesting for others customers
To me it's a 100% failure rate just saying

The lamination issue wasn't resolved or what that I had the issue on the first batch of rims and
much later end of 2017 beginning of 2018 ?

Deleted the screenshots but kept the narrative for better understanding

Didn't say you deny a single warranty claim . Say that something like a recall or something could have been done ? It may have be done by contacting wheelbuilders who use your rims directly that I do'nt know , I can only speak about what I know .

I am happy my experience is not what generally what happens . But as you know customer tend to take thing personnally

User avatar
vmajor
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:09 am
Location: Beringen, Belgium
Contact:

by vmajor

I understand. The type of failure you experienced was concentrated to a few customers among hundreds of rims. The overall incidence of this failure is in fact low.

Second, due to the internal structure of the rim this lamination failure looked far worse than it was, when it came to safety, since the geometric integrity of the rim was maintained.

This is why there was no recall.

The downstream process is the same for all the Rev rims, Rev 507 included so this lamination issue was affecting the Rev 35 in particular and it has been resolved.

It was highly unfortunate and statistically unusual that you received several rims with a similar failure mode

V.

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post