New Shamal Mille!

[LionelB]

I am also reading this as that the red pads can be used with both rims but I see no way to avoid cleaning the pads when you switch to carbon rims.

[Lig]

Yeah, but its hard to clean out all those alloy shards?! I wouldn't expect to have to do this as it would really involve sanding down the pads. Its easier to put another set in??!!

I am reading this to mean the new 'treatment' wont shed any alloy onto the pads??!!??!!

I guess only time will tell....

Lig.

[5 8 5]

Lig, earlier in the thread Graeme from the Uk Service Centre replied to my post -

Campag claim it's not just a surface treatment a la Mavic Exalith and they'll stay black.

Not quite true.

It *is* a surface treatment *but* the benefit of hardening influences a significant depth of material on the brake tracks below the black surface coating, which is itself also extremely hard - however, road debris such as sand or small pieces of grit / stone trapped in a brake block long-term will score through the black finish.

The pro-teams have, as ever, beaten them to within an inch of their lives in racing and training and not seen any significant degradation in the braking surfaces other than that caused by the aforementioned small bit of grit etc.

We strongly recommend that brake blocks are cleaned & inspected regularly in any case - to maintain the finish on Shamal Mille / Racing Zero Nite this will also be necessary.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd

If it's best to clean the pads to retain the finish on the Mille and Nite wheels then it'll certainly be prudent to clean them before using them with carbon wheels.

Also some blocks are better than others regarding metal shards. I've found that SwissStop Blacks are very kind to Campag aluminium wheels and don't seem to create the shards that other blocks do.

I've not used Campag Carbon pads on the aluminium wheels though.....

[Lig]

Yeah, I get what you and Graeme are saying and it makes total sense, I just think its odd that Campag state that you can just switch between wheels. IF it was a case that you had to clean, sand, check when you switched then I think Campag would state this OR they wouldn't state this can be done at all.

I very rarely clean my pads, and have no problems with my alloy or carbon rims but obviously there is no way i would switch my wheels without pads, and i would be reluctant to do it with the new Shamals (if i buy some)....

I dunno..... Just an interesting concept...

Lig..

[Vagabond]

Again, does anyone really want to risk very expensive carbon rims for the sake of a few minutes time?

[5 8 5]

Yeah, I get what you and Graeme are saying and it makes total sense, I just think its odd that Campag state that you can just switch between wheels. IF it was a case that you had to clean, sand, check when you switched then I think Campag would state this OR they wouldn't state this can be done at all.

I very rarely clean my pads, and have no problems with my alloy or carbon rims but obviously there is no way i would switch my wheels without pads, and i would be reluctant to do it with the new Shamals (if i buy some)....

I think it's just because it's possible to do. In the past Campag have had pads for only aluminium rims and pads for only carbon rims unlike some other manufacturers that have pads that can be used on both.

If for example you've been on a wet and grimy ride on carbon wheels and then subbed another set of carbon wheels without cleaning the pads there is a danger of scoring or prematurely wearing the other rims. It wouldn't matter whether it's alloy / carbon or carbon / carbon or carbon /alloy.

[sawyer]

Hi Chaps,

Sorry but i beg to differ....

This is from the Campag blurb....

'While many will choose to run the Shamal Mille as their go-to race wheels in addition to their training wheels, many athletes will appreciate the fact that they will no longer need to swap out brake pads when changing from their aluminum wheels to their Campagnolo Bora or Hyperion race day wheels.'

To me that says they are confident that there will be no shards??!! I am surprised they say this really?!

http://www.campagnolo.com/DE/de/Produkt ... re_control

Lig.

They need to very clear on this point otherwise they will mis-lead people into wrecking their carbon rims.

If these Mille wheels (daft name btw) had steel spokes I'd be up for a pair. Shame they still keep missing that one, despite obviously knowing the performance benefit (no alu spokes on their carbon wheels ...)

[thisisatest]

Sheesh... I hope for everyone's sake that @graeme_f_k doesn't just throw up his arms and quit contributing.

I'm sorry I questioned a manufacturers claims and matched it with data I could find.
I'm also sorry that I do not recognize claims as factual data.

Of course I'm not sorry at all. I certainly don't want to scare away Graeme, but the fanboyish "Best post ever! Real data is great" when there's actually zero data is much more detrimental than critical thinking.

And I assume Graeme is a big guy and realizes that so far he only has put down claims without any supporting data. If that's all he can do, no problem (proprietary data and it's likely unverifiable by us anyway), but he should say so. "Guys, I can't show you the numbers, but believe us. The experience shows that we know our stuff". No outlandish claims needed.

Sorry to bring this up again, but I can't restrain myself...
Yes all else being equal, spoke lacing patterns affect lateral stiffness very, very little. But...
Triplet lacing, when used with a hub specifically designed for it, makes for a laterally stiffer wheel. Yes, there are fewer NDS spokes for lateral stiffness, but that is more than made up for by moving the NDS flange farther to the left. This is no longer "all else being equal".
Campy's claim of "17% greater reactivity" may be some proprietary matrix, but I will contend that it's largely torsional stiffness. It's making no claims of greater efficiency. It is generally a preferred characteristic, though. Zipp's 188 rear hubs, with their very low torsional stiffness lacing pattern, are notorious for this, and while they're not slower, sprinters have complained about the feel.
Note about your data on lateral stiffness: your data link is for VERTICAL stiffness. His models might as well have one center flange with all the spokes on it. Which is fine, for what he was testing. It just has no bearing on this discussion.

[fogman]

I wonder if the 2014 Shamal Ultra Cinchers can be upgraded with the new Mille rim without having to purchase an entire new wheel set?

[Lig]

My guess is that something will not be compatible...... in any case I looked into getting my standard rear re-rimmed and the cost was too close to getting a new wheel. So i ditched it and bought a new pair.

Lig.

[Zigmeister]

They were 1450g with the 60g quick release levers...so 1390g. Not bad for a training aluminum wheel.

[speedyvelo]

The new Shamal according to the the Campi description seems to be the same as 2014 but with a new braking surface. I have been using Shamals since 2009 now I have the 2013. The reason I choose Shamals were the 2-way fit to use with tubeless tires. Since 2009 I have about 8K miles a year these are my impressions about Shamal : they are the strongest wheels I have ever used, always true. They roll great with minimal maintenance.. Using Campi brake pads, braking is excellent. Since 2009 only one time I could not ride home because a huge lateral cut, otherwise with Stan sealant, the tires last me about 2500 miles and no flats. The 2009 wheels were retired after a crash, I got the 2013 and have been riding this wheel since. For my use after I discover tubeless tires is no way back, the shamals I believe is one of the best wheels for tubeless, the new one with the new braking surface add another benefits mainly for users competing, that can switch back and forth to carbon wheels.

[TK421]

I really really like those new Mille wheels! My Racing Zeros are still running as brand new, so no real need to sell them just to buy those beauties! But I build another bike soon definitely will!

As regard to the braking pads. I have Fulcrum Racing Zeros and Fulcrum Racing Speed XLR and before I start using the Carbon wheels for a very first time I asked the mechanic in the shop who did the build what to do. Basically, he installed the Red braking pads the carbon wheels came with (which are Campag pads anyway) and said not to worry when switching between wheels as long as the brake pads are nicely cleaned. So I've been doing this for one season and problems what so ever. I just make sure I clean the brake pads every time I put the carbon wheels again. As with the braking power, the Red pads brake just fine on the Racing Zeros too.. Just my 2c!

[Lig]

Hang on TK421 - so you have been using the same set of pads for 'standard' alloy rims (Zeros) and for your carbon XLRs with no problems ??!! Surely that has got to be asking for some trouble??

How is the braking with the Zeros on the red pads??

Also for info i have just seen the RRP for the Mille is £865 so they should be available for around the £700 mark with discounts which seems very reasonable....

Lig.

[Flint]

Lig

Have you any price info on the bora clinchers?

Cheers