Bikehubstore Hubs and TB415w Rims - Build, Ride, Review
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:55 pm
BHS Hubset and TB415w thoughts....
In preparation for cyclocross season, I took it upon myself to sell my previous motley crew of CX wheels, and order up a whole new quiver. Brandon at http://www.Bikehubstore.com was very responsive to my questions, and ultimately let me qualify for the $1000+ 10% discount, although my order wasn't quite there. He and I had a virtual conversation regarding spoke lengths, resulting in the ERD for the rims being updated online (measured at 593.5). I am very particular about spoke lengths, and always build a digital model to double check the spokecalc spreadsheet results. But every combination is different, and even similar sized nipples from different companies can make a 1-2 mm difference, which may be the extra 1 turn you need but can't get. So, trust but verify every component of the build. His shipping was blazing fast and cheap, next-day delivery of components for 2.5 wheelsets at $20 = Wow!
The rims. TB415w. Beautiful. Great 23mm wide profile, with a perfect cx-specific glue bed. Weights were between 417 and 422 depending on the hole count. The Clements I mounted fit like they were designed as a package. The sleeve is very nicely done for the joining, but on the 28 hole, a spoke hole does occur on the sleeve which adds maybe 1-2 mm of spoke length needed just at that one hole. If your spokes are short, you could be screwed. I was fine. The blunted curve profile at the nipple bed made tensioning the hexhead nipples from the back side easy, as the tool fits down into the rim with no problems. Just remember to grease the nipples when lacing, and spoke prep the threads. The brake track machining looks very nice, although it does wander just a tiny bit, which can be seen when spinning in the truing stand. I mean tiny. Comparing these rims to Velocity a23s I've built in the past.... well, there is no comparison. The joint is better, the rim is rounder and truer out of the box, the spoke holes are better deburred. Overall, the rim is a winner!
The Build. In my case, I ordered the SL210 and SLF85w hubset. I used standard aluminum 14mm sapim nipples for one wheelset, and Hexhead aluminum 14mm sapim nipples for the other two. (These versions of the same length nipple build up slightly differently, with the hex heads bottoming out about 1mm before the standards... so if you're spokes are long, you could be screwed. I was perfect I laced 24 sapim lasers radial for the fronts, one of which I did heads-in, the other two were heads out. For the rears, I used sapim cx-rays 2x on the DS and lasers 2x on the NDS. I built the fronts to 100-105 kgf, and the rears to DS max of 110-115 kgf. I would recommend heads out on the front, as the hub flanges are so wide to require some pretty aggressive bending of the spoke head neck when built heads in. Should be ok either way, but heads out leaves the spokes curved exactly as they come and is plenty wide, imho.
The Hubs. I'm a bit torn on this hubset. They are amazingly affordable, look great, build up strong wheels, barely nudge the scale (exactly at spec), and are 10/11 speed compatible. However, I have had bearing issues even in my limited amount of time riding them, and as of yet, I'm not sure how to resolve the issues. One of my front hubs has excessive preload and hence resists a free spin, while the other two spin perfectly. This is a pretty minor niggle that may settle in with some more miles. On the rears, I have raced once and trained once, both in dry conditions, and my freehub bearings already feel grungy. There is a very slight side-to-side play in the wheel.
I disassembled the hub completely, and can confirm it is the freehub, not the hubshell bearings that are grungy, but I cannot identify the source of the side to side play. All the bearings in this hubset are Enduro abec5, and the rear hub is a very basic captured design. The two end caps screw onto the axle ends and capture the inner races between a spacer sleeve in the freehub and internal ridges machined onto the axle that set the main hubshell bearing distance. The axle is a one piece 15mm alloy unit, and the internal ridges make it impossible to remove without tapping one of the bearings out with it. The captured bearing design should be foolproof as the end caps have about 2mm of threads left once they are snugged down, meaning neither is bottoming out and there should be no play due to looseness. So, I'm at a loss. Yet the development of the play, and the grungy state of the freehub bearings after just 2 hours or riding in pristine conditions leads me to believe that there is some small tolerance issue at work. I will certainly update this review as I (or Brandon) identify and rectify the issue.
Wrap up. That said, the hubset built up wonderfully, into light wheels of even tension that have lateral stiffness beyond my similar a23 clincher setup. (keep in mind I'm 135lbs running 24/28.) They came out at 623 + 770 + 1393. While I could perhaps get away with a 20/24 build, which would be 50-60 grams lighter, I personally prefer to have my tires do the flexing, and therefore try to run stiff wheels. The added benefit of solidly built wheels is I shouldn't have to tweak the build, baring some kind of racing incident.
So there you go. Please ask any questions or add to the discussion however you find useful.
In preparation for cyclocross season, I took it upon myself to sell my previous motley crew of CX wheels, and order up a whole new quiver. Brandon at http://www.Bikehubstore.com was very responsive to my questions, and ultimately let me qualify for the $1000+ 10% discount, although my order wasn't quite there. He and I had a virtual conversation regarding spoke lengths, resulting in the ERD for the rims being updated online (measured at 593.5). I am very particular about spoke lengths, and always build a digital model to double check the spokecalc spreadsheet results. But every combination is different, and even similar sized nipples from different companies can make a 1-2 mm difference, which may be the extra 1 turn you need but can't get. So, trust but verify every component of the build. His shipping was blazing fast and cheap, next-day delivery of components for 2.5 wheelsets at $20 = Wow!
The rims. TB415w. Beautiful. Great 23mm wide profile, with a perfect cx-specific glue bed. Weights were between 417 and 422 depending on the hole count. The Clements I mounted fit like they were designed as a package. The sleeve is very nicely done for the joining, but on the 28 hole, a spoke hole does occur on the sleeve which adds maybe 1-2 mm of spoke length needed just at that one hole. If your spokes are short, you could be screwed. I was fine. The blunted curve profile at the nipple bed made tensioning the hexhead nipples from the back side easy, as the tool fits down into the rim with no problems. Just remember to grease the nipples when lacing, and spoke prep the threads. The brake track machining looks very nice, although it does wander just a tiny bit, which can be seen when spinning in the truing stand. I mean tiny. Comparing these rims to Velocity a23s I've built in the past.... well, there is no comparison. The joint is better, the rim is rounder and truer out of the box, the spoke holes are better deburred. Overall, the rim is a winner!
The Build. In my case, I ordered the SL210 and SLF85w hubset. I used standard aluminum 14mm sapim nipples for one wheelset, and Hexhead aluminum 14mm sapim nipples for the other two. (These versions of the same length nipple build up slightly differently, with the hex heads bottoming out about 1mm before the standards... so if you're spokes are long, you could be screwed. I was perfect I laced 24 sapim lasers radial for the fronts, one of which I did heads-in, the other two were heads out. For the rears, I used sapim cx-rays 2x on the DS and lasers 2x on the NDS. I built the fronts to 100-105 kgf, and the rears to DS max of 110-115 kgf. I would recommend heads out on the front, as the hub flanges are so wide to require some pretty aggressive bending of the spoke head neck when built heads in. Should be ok either way, but heads out leaves the spokes curved exactly as they come and is plenty wide, imho.
The Hubs. I'm a bit torn on this hubset. They are amazingly affordable, look great, build up strong wheels, barely nudge the scale (exactly at spec), and are 10/11 speed compatible. However, I have had bearing issues even in my limited amount of time riding them, and as of yet, I'm not sure how to resolve the issues. One of my front hubs has excessive preload and hence resists a free spin, while the other two spin perfectly. This is a pretty minor niggle that may settle in with some more miles. On the rears, I have raced once and trained once, both in dry conditions, and my freehub bearings already feel grungy. There is a very slight side-to-side play in the wheel.
I disassembled the hub completely, and can confirm it is the freehub, not the hubshell bearings that are grungy, but I cannot identify the source of the side to side play. All the bearings in this hubset are Enduro abec5, and the rear hub is a very basic captured design. The two end caps screw onto the axle ends and capture the inner races between a spacer sleeve in the freehub and internal ridges machined onto the axle that set the main hubshell bearing distance. The axle is a one piece 15mm alloy unit, and the internal ridges make it impossible to remove without tapping one of the bearings out with it. The captured bearing design should be foolproof as the end caps have about 2mm of threads left once they are snugged down, meaning neither is bottoming out and there should be no play due to looseness. So, I'm at a loss. Yet the development of the play, and the grungy state of the freehub bearings after just 2 hours or riding in pristine conditions leads me to believe that there is some small tolerance issue at work. I will certainly update this review as I (or Brandon) identify and rectify the issue.
Wrap up. That said, the hubset built up wonderfully, into light wheels of even tension that have lateral stiffness beyond my similar a23 clincher setup. (keep in mind I'm 135lbs running 24/28.) They came out at 623 + 770 + 1393. While I could perhaps get away with a 20/24 build, which would be 50-60 grams lighter, I personally prefer to have my tires do the flexing, and therefore try to run stiff wheels. The added benefit of solidly built wheels is I shouldn't have to tweak the build, baring some kind of racing incident.
So there you go. Please ask any questions or add to the discussion however you find useful.