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Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:49 pm
by Miller
Miller wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:The Novatec F482SB (HG) and F582SB (ED10) is 245g. The rear hub has PCD DS =49mm and NDS =41mm and flange seperation DS =18mm and DS = 37mm. Drilling 20H, 24H and 28H. The SL version is 230g. The freehub body is easily replaced with 2x 5mm allen keys. There is no preload adjustment on these. They seem pretty durable though. Freehub bodies are pretty cheap as well.


This is quoting a post from back in January because it references a hub I am interested in. Can anyone confirm whether the Novatec rear hub F582SB for Campagnolo will take 11-speed cassettes?


I went ahead and bought a pair of Novatec hubs including this Campag-compatible rear and built them with a pair of Gigantex rims off this forum. The build went well and I mounted tyres and cassette and fitted them to the bike. Rear wheel frozen solid. Investigation shows that the cassette does not bind against the inner face of the right rear dropout nor does the inside of the largest cassette cog foul anything on the wheel. It appears that tightening the cassette lockring is somehow causing the hub bearings to bind.

Is this fixable or can I conclude this hub does not support C11 ?

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:55 pm
by KLabs
Hi Miller, it is most likely that the freehub body is rubbing against the inner hub shell when you tighten the DS End Cap. If that is the case then the hub is faulty and needs to be replaced.

A method to check this is to loosen the NDS end cap, or remove it, then tighten the DS end cap only and see if the wheel spins freely.
If it spins freely with the NDS end cap loosened/removed and the DS end cap tight then this would suggest that the axle bearing stops are not correctly machined and that when the NDS end cap tightened the axle is being pulled to the NDS. If this is the case then this is causing the freehub binding issue and a thin copper/ss pressure washer is needed between the NDS bearing and axle stop.

hope this helps ... thanks KL :)

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 2:17 pm
by Miller
Thanks for the analysis, appreciated. It seems to be the freehub jamming on the freehub bearings. It was an ebay purchase from Taiwan... I have messaged the seller to see if they are willing to help.

Really annoying, was hoping to be riding those wheels this weekend now that finally we have nice weather.

Follow-up edit: the seller says they will send a replacement cassette body and side cap. I'll need to wait a bit but that is decent of them.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:51 am
by bm0p700f
Hopefully that is the problem. I would though not ride them in filthy wet weather that will kill the bearings. My comment are durability does assume you ride them in resoanbly dry conditions. The bearings in the freehub body are easily replaced. I have just replaced all of the rear bearings in a customers hub with INA bearings to try and give him more of a all weather hub.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:57 pm
by Miller
I've built them onto a pair of Gigantex carbon clinchers off this forum so I am not thinking of them as a wet-weather ride, that's for sure.

Yes, I certainly hope a new freehub body will fix the issue.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:15 am
by NovemberDave
If the cassette body was swapped to make a Shimano into a Campy hub, which is likely, then there is a good chance given your symptoms that there are two o-rings between the cassette body and the hub body. Pull the cassette body off and fish around. It's a mistake I once made, easy to make.

The end caps are Shimano and Campy specific. The Campy drive side one is wider than the Shimano one, the Shimano nds cap is wider than the Campy one. Having the wrong end caps on will make the hub not work, but you don't have the symptoms of that.

The F482SB hub puts up with some astonishing abuse. There is nothing about them that's fair weather only usage. After a ride in a monsoon, sure take the cassette body off and dry and regrease it if you like. They're durable and easily serviced.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:07 pm
by Miller
Thanks for the ideas about my annoying hub problem. Your comments provoked me into into taking a closer look at the hub. I pulled off the freehub body and there is only one o-ring behind the freehub so it is not that.

However I think I may have the wrong RHS end cap. Here is a photo of the RHS endcap beside the Campag 11sp lockring. The endcap has a protruding flange, presumably to shield the bearings.
Image

When the hub is assembled, the lockring is in the following relation to the endcap

Image

I think the problem is that when the lockring is screwed into the freehub, the inner edge of the lockring is grounding against the protruding flange on the hub endcap. Here you can see that with only a little bit of the silver locknut protruding past the outside face of the lockring, as it must, then the inner edge of the lockring is resting against the endcap flange. Surely this can't be right? I measured the RHS endcap width at 19mm.

Image

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:07 pm
by NovemberDave
It seems like you have the wrong end cap. I'll try to remember to measure one later (don't have any Campy end caps wit me today). We bought a lot of Campy cassette bodies and end caps before they made the switch to the flanged end cap. I can't even 100% confirm that current Campy drive side end caps have that flange, although the Shimano ones definitely do.

We've done a lot of builds to be used with Campy 11 speed. It definitely works with the right parts.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:59 pm
by teleguy57
Semi-related thread drift....

I'm looking to strengthen a Campy rear Novatec build by increasing the width slightly through replacing the NDS endcap on a Campy hub with the endcap for a Shimano hub. In theory, it makes the hub 131 OLD vs 130, and makes the NDS center-to-flange spacing -.5mm and the DS spacing +.5mm. Do you see anything about that which makes it a poor idea?

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:31 pm
by Mackers
Works a charm.

Also, I've never had problems with 11S cassettes on this hub.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:19 pm
by NovemberDave
Miller -

As far as I can tell your end caps are completely mixed up. I don't know what "RHS" means but I'm guessing right hand side? The drive side end cap on that hub, with a Campy set up, is 15mm. The non-drive is 18mm. For a Shimano hub, they are 14 and 19 respectively.

So it seems you have Shimano endcaps, and they are reversed. If you put that wheel in a frame as is now it should be quite off center.

Teleguy -

As long as it fits the frame I can't see any reason why that wouldn't work.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:09 am
by Miller
The wheel isn't off-centre because I built it with the hub with those end-caps. I have ordered a pair of Campag endcaps from Bdop Cycling and hopefully that will solve the issue fairly soon. If I need to re-dish the wheel, I can do that.

Thanks for the input, very helpful.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:17 pm
by StradaJon
Slightly off topic but worth asking.... have you checked the lockring is not pressing down onto the bearing when in tight?

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:08 pm
by Miller
It kind of is. The lockring grounds against the flange of the driveside endcap. I presume this compresses the freehub bearings and locks them solid. Still need new endcaps.

Re: Problems with Novatec rear hub and Campagnolo 11v

Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:43 pm
by Miller
Picture below shows the Campag sidecap kit for the Novatec rear hub, it arrived today. What order am I meant to assemble them onto the hub?

I think these parts are in fact the same as were originally on the hub. If the flanged sidecap goes on the driveside, I have the same problem as before, the inner edge of the Campag lockring grounds against the flange and the freehub bearings lock up. I am finding this very aggravating.

Image