dcl10 wrote:The Enve's are stiffer, more stable in crosswinds, and their warranty service is excellent. Never any warranty hassles with wholesale orders, and they always seem to give the customer the benefit of the doubt, vs Zipp, who from my experience just assumes its your fault and makes you prove otherwise.
I thought we had determined that to be a "make the marketing fit the data" point by Enve. Their overall steering torque is higher than Zipp, but it's more linear beyond some unspecified yaw angle (because who needs to label the x-axis). I have a big issue with how dishonest they present their data given than they just plugged "303 Firecrest" into the data after it came out rather than actually testing it (the previous 303 was tested, not a Firecrest, as they claim).
I think a lot of the braying about this or that with Zipp is completely overblown , but I'd still go with Enve just for being able to choose my own hub, especially given the small cost difference (Enves also seem to retain their value better).
e: also, how have people not learned to use the wheel sub forum yet?
I did find that the braking on the ENVE to be much better (stronger, more consistent, less noise) than the Zipp's.
jcumpstay wrote:I haven't ridden the 303's but I do own a set of 404's and also a set of Enve 3.4's on Alchemy Hubs. I have actually given my 404's to a mate to ride at the moment and part of the reason for doing so was to see if he thought they were as flexy and noodle like as i do. Waiting on his longer term review but when he came back to me after a few days saying that he couldn't get over how much the wheels rubbed the brake pads when putting the power down, I knew that my suspicions were correct. The other comment he made was that he was not going to use them in crit races because he was sure the rest of the bunch would hear the brake rub before he had a chance to try for a break away.
In summary we both dislike the 404's due to their flex issues. In regards to the Enve 3.4's, well they are just better on all fronts. A lot stiffer, seem just as aero as the 404's but don't catch the cross winds as much and with Alchemy hubs they are silky smooth yet durable.
Just my two cents worth, but I won't be buying Zipp again anytime soon.
Agree with this. PLEASE rethink your choice of DT240S hubs for those Enve rims. I have 6.7s on the DTs and 3.4s on the Alchemy hubs and the Alchemy hubs just build in to a stiffer, more responsive wheel. Both wheels were built by Wheelbuilder and they have confirmed my assessment.
P5 | 9070 Di2 | Rotor 2Inpower | Aeolus TLR 7
T1 | Power2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc
SuperX Hi-Mod Disc | Sram Red | Power2Max NG
Ok...not my opinion obviously. Are you going to get a better hub and *maybe* better rim....hub yes, rim, not so much IMO....so you put $1200+ more into the Enve 3.4 to get what exactly? You won't gain anything performance wise from that move going with the Enve, except to say you have Enve with xxx special hubs.
Which, if I'm building wheels, I'm going with Alchemy hubs and CXRays personally...so I'm on board with that...but the rest, no so much.
If you want DT240 hubs, just go get yourself some Bontrager D3/D5 Aeolus wheels. I think if pros that are bashing the Sh&t out of these things in Paris Roubaix and winning the races (Cancellera-Bont D5 Aeolus/Boonen-303 FC tubies)...why bother with anything else...haha...
And I think DT240s are underrated. Yes they are a bit boring and may provide a slightly less stiff wheel but IME they have many advantages including ease of service and they only take a sec to swap 10 to 11 speed. I also like the star ratchet more than pawl systems.
Zigmeister wrote:Wait, so everyone is of the opinion OP should drop $1800-2000 for the Rims, and then jam another $700 in hubs, then spokes/nipples, plus the $200 custom build labor get himself a $3000 set of wheels....when you can get a set of Zipp FC tubulars beyond black with 188 hubs/cxrays for $1700-1800 new?
Similar issue here in Australia. Zipp 404 FC's about $2,400 from any number of shops. Enve 3.4's about $3,500. As much as I want the Enve's that extra $1,100 gets me a Power2max power meter thrown in as well.
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