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Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:11 am
by eric
When stating what pads you have used it is really helpful to say what rims they were on. Like I posted above, what works on one rim can work poorly or even damage a different rim. (my friends who own a major Trek shop say they regularly see Bontrager rims ruined by SwissStop yellows. Warranty does not cover that.)

I have used Yellows and Reynolds blue pads on Reynolds rims. The blue pads have significantly better stopping power, make much less noise and don't glaze over like the Yellows did. I have only used the Reynolds pads on my Farsports rims. Those (with basalt brake tracks) brake better than the Reynolds, which are from 2008.

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:11 am
by Weenie

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:23 am
by Bukes
I've been on the Zipp Tangente Platinum pads for the past 4 months using both DuraAce 7900 and EE brake calipers and find them excellent. On my Zipp 404 tubulars, they perform almost as well as conventional pads on aluminum rims.

The one thing I do notice is that they wear fairly fast (although I'm 80kg and do a lot of climbing (and therefore a lot of descending)), despite using proper braking technique (treating brake levers as though they're scalding hot :-) ).

I've also had good luck with the Reynolds blue pads on Easton EC90SLX carbon wheels as well, but not nearly as good as the Zipp pad/wheel combo - they seem to have things dialed in.

Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:01 pm
by drmutley
Awesome feedback guys... Thanks..,
I will try a set of the enves, but seem hard to get here in Australia... Anywhere easy online trips to Aust? Keep the comparisons flowing guys...

FWIW, the yellows will be going in the bin, as they are terrible

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:18 pm
by fdegrove
Hi,

-Corima (red red carbon) (made by SwissStop, I believe, for Specialized)


It seems to me you're confusing the Corima cork pads (which I think are made by Fibrax) and the red version of the Swissstop Yellows which Swissstop manufactures for Specialized.

Other than that, if it's modulation you're after, as per Geoff: Corima cork pads. Not so great when it's pouring rain but that also varies from one rim brand to the next.
Another plus is that these are very light and relatively inexpensive. One model serves all road brake types.

Ciao, ;)

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:04 pm
by keith
I've been through a few pads on my Lightweight III (10 speed) rims. All were grabby, especially at lower speeds, ie when trying to come to a dead stop at a road junction. Finally happy with Zipp cork pads, a bit expensive, but no grabbiness - ie they modulate well. As a previous poster noted the ultimate stopping power is a little bit less, but I'll happily trade this for the smooth modulation. Will be selling these wheels at some point to move up to 11 speed, I think LW have updated their brake surfaces on their latest models, so I'll have to see if there is any difference. I've also just updated my group-set to DA 9000 - so it will interesting to see if the new callipers work differently to the 7800 on the same rims/pads.

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:19 pm
by danielbahia
I have ENVE 45 Clincher set and have tested several alternatives and all of them with poor results. The Yellow Swisstop is noisy and when wet doesn't brake, Corima red cork let me unsafe, I can't have confidence on them, so never tried, despite have some here. The Kool stop are also poor.

I have a DA 7900 lever and Ciamillo N GSL caliper, where do you think is the problem, caliper or pad?

Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:25 pm
by podilatis23
Just to know guys enve guarantee is not valid if you use swisstop. I used swisstop yellow with my enve rim and when i had a problem with the rims they told me that the reason was the swisstop brake pads. Finally, they didn't help me and i bought a new corima rim.
The enve rims was only 6 month old.....

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:30 pm
by eric
Why don't you use the pads that Enve recommends? It surprises me that people will spend $2500 on a set of wheels and then take random pad recommendations off the internet rather than try the pads that the manufacturer recommends.

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:56 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

When spending that kind of cash on wheels would it not surprise you not to be allowed to use any carbon specific brake pad?

Next thing a car manufacturer will only warrant an engine if you use their favourite brand of gas or lube, whatever.... Now, I'm sure that would be unacceptable.
Why do we accept wheel manufacturers to impose their carbon pads and nothing else is way beyond me. Most brands do it but that does not make it right.

Where does it all end?

Ciao, ;)

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:06 am
by eric
Excellent analogy.

Car manufacturers require certain specification of oil. Use the incorrect oil and an engine failure due to incorrect oil is not going to be warrantied. That's becase the engine is designed for a certain specification of oil. Sure you can put any oil in there, but if it's wrong enough, engine damage will result, and it'll be your fault.

You can use any pads you want on carbon rims but some won't work well, and some will damage the rims. That's because the rim material is designed to work with a certain type of pad material. "carbon specific" is not specific enough. There is more than one type of formulation. Cork based pads work poorly on some types of carbon and well on others. Not all rubber based pads work the same.

Rim makers do tests on pads to see what is the best for their rim and which ones damage the rims (FarSports posted a video of their test rig in action in another thread, and there have been articles on Enve's testing). Then they recommend the ones that work well and forbid the ones that damage the rims. Sometimes they are not satisfied with the pads that are available and formulate their own for their rims. For example, Reynolds used to recommend Swiss Stop Yellows but frankly they were not all that good. Reynolds came out with their own pads which work much better on their rims, and they charged half the price of the Yellows for them.

I'm not going to say that you should only use the manufacturer's recommend pad but you should try that first. With the current state of the art that is probably what is going to work the best. If you decide to try something else you should be aware what pads will void your warranty if they damage the rims and proceed with that in mind. It's not hard to find- it's usually on the manufacturer's web site.

Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:39 am
by drmutley
eric wrote:Why don't you use the pads that Enve recommends? It surprises me that people will spend $2500 on a set of wheels and then take random pad recommendations off the internet rather than try the pads that the manufacturer recommends.



drmutley wrote:Awesome feedback guys... Thanks..,
I will try a set of the enves, but seem hard to get here in Australia... Anywhere easy online trips to Aust? Keep the comparisons flowing guys...

FWIW, the yellows will be going in the bin, as they are terrible



You must've missed this post?

Availability is one reason some would use other than ENVE pads here in Australia.... Will report on how the ENVEs compare... I'm sure it will be light and day...

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:00 pm
by carlislegeorge
danielbahia wrote:I have ENVE 45 Clincher set and have tested several alternatives and all of them with poor results. The Yellow Swisstop is noisy and when wet doesn't brake, Corima red cork let me unsafe, I can't have confidence on them, so never tried, despite have some here. The Kool stop are also poor.

I have a DA 7900 lever and Ciamillo N GSL caliper, where do you think is the problem, caliper or pad?


Shimano changed the pull ratio for the 7900, so chances are the caliper is your issue unless it is optimized accordingly...after that is sorted, I'd stay with whatever Enve recommends for pads.

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:31 pm
by danielbahia
carlislegeorge wrote:
danielbahia wrote:I have ENVE 45 Clincher set and have tested several alternatives and all of them with poor results. The Yellow Swisstop is noisy and when wet doesn't brake, Corima red cork let me unsafe, I can't have confidence on them, so never tried, despite have some here. The Kool stop are also poor.

I have a DA 7900 lever and Ciamillo N GSL caliper, where do you think is the problem, caliper or pad?


Shimano changed the pull ratio for the 7900, so chances are the caliper is your issue unless it is optimized accordingly...after that is sorted, I'd stay with whatever Enve recommends for pads.


nice, that's pull ratio I have heard about but never an info about how it works with Ciamillo. By the way, in the future I want to move for D12 9000, do you think the new DA 9000 caliper will be ok also (as the 7900)?

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:12 pm
by coloclimber
Coming off alloy rims, the new black Swiss Stop Prince for carbon has been a game changer for me on CCU's... but they wear quickly.

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:12 pm
by Weenie

Re: Best modulating brake pads for carbon wheels?

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:13 am
by eric
I have not been that thrilled with the Black Prince pads (on Farsports rims with basalt brake tracks). Braking power is ok but not significantly better than fresh Reynolds blue or Farsports blue. And unlike the blue pads, they squeal more readily under hard braking.