H Plus Son Archetype Build

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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Elrey
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:13 pm
Location: Denmark. Yeeees

by Elrey

Would you guys choose the Archetype on CK R45 with CX Rays over at set over the new set of carbon clincher wheels from farsports?
http://www.farsports.cn/product/detail.php/id-142.html

1415chris
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

With these given details, probably the question you would have to answer yourself.
Eventually you can seek the help here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/90178027@N02/9042037808/ :wink:
These wheels are so different that it is hard to compare them. And giving anybody any recommendations without knowing details determining your wheels choice, is impossible.

bobonker
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:49 am

by bobonker

Simon: How are you stress relieving the spokes? CX-Rays make it easy to build with no wind-up, but as WMW said, stress relief is most definitely needed.

Bob

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WMW
in the industry
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:59 pm
Location: Ruidoso, NM

by WMW

Simonhi wrote:
WMW wrote:Realising now that you mean ( I think ) setting the spoke path (required more for head in spokes bending over the hub flange) I can't be sure that I did that, since the wheelset was built over six months ago and sat in a bag until a few weeks ago.

Is there a minimum spoke tension you would be worried about going below on the non-DS ???


Stress relieving is specifically taking spokes past yield so that the residual stresses (at the elbow especially) are relieved. Fatigue strength is greatly improved by this.

Improving the spoke path is another issue. I bend the spokes slightly at the J, cross, and above the threads. After several rounds of stress relieving everything is in the optimal state.

If you didn't do these steps it is likely that considerable bending and settling occurred after the build.

If the rim is fairly straight you should have no more than 5kg variance on the NDS. The max DS tension and the hub geometry determines the NDS tension. Usually it's >50kg.
formerly rruff...

Simonhi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:15 pm

by Simonhi

WMW wrote:
Simonhi wrote:
WMW wrote:Realising now that you mean ( I think ) setting the spoke path (required more for head in spokes bending over the hub flange) I can't be sure that I did that, since the wheelset was built over six months ago and sat in a bag until a few weeks ago.

Is there a minimum spoke tension you would be worried about going below on the non-DS ???


Stress relieving is specifically taking spokes past yield so that the residual stresses (at the elbow especially) are relieved. Fatigue strength is greatly improved by this.

Improving the spoke path is another issue. I bend the spokes slightly at the J, cross, and above the threads. After several rounds of stress relieving everything is in the optimal state.

If you didn't do these steps it is likely that considerable bending and settling occurred after the build.

If the rim is fairly straight you should have no more than 5kg variance on the NDS. The max DS tension and the hub geometry determines the NDS tension. Usually it's >50kg.


Thanks for the infromation, a handy reminder when building again.

When I rebuilt at the weekend I noticed that the Non-DS spokes were not set towards the spoke holes meaning that I did not form them as I normally would do. I think that coupled with not maintaining even spoke tension throughout the build has most likley contributed to the wheel coming undone.

I will make sure I pre-stress the wheel also, really can't remeber whether this was done before or not, possible not as I (wrongly) assumed it was not required due to no spoke wind-up.

Thanks for all the information, all help for future builds I'm sure :thumbup:

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kavitator
Posts: 1150
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Mine build - i love it! weight of rims are around 480g - but at acceleration it feeling like they are lighter.

Image

Image

Image

on BARTIME ceramic hubs rear Powerflange for stiffer wheel

Image

Image

pyf
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:38 pm
Location: France
Contact:

by pyf

Kavitator,

May I ask you, how much did you have to bend the spokes on the NDS with that rear hub when installing them. I can see how to install the NDS spokes that have heads in through the drive side window, but the spokes that are elbows in / heads out must be very hard to install. Any trick ?

Interesting rear hub... that's why I'm asking :wink: .

Thanks !

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kavitator
Posts: 1150
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

Rear hub is from two parts and adjustable flange spacing for classic (10 speed) or 11 speed shimano

Image


Image

Titanium22
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 pm

by Titanium22

1415chris wrote:Anodizing wears out pretty quick.
And that's how they look after just above 1000km:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90178027@N ... otostream/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Nice rims, they hold up very well. There was just one small correction after first few rides. Since than :D on my face.
I laced them to mig/mag 70/170 with cx-rays and alu nipples. I'm about 200lb/90kg.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1016755715 ... ag170CxRay" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Hi Chris,

I just wondered how after a few years you got on with the tune hubs?

Thanks
Nick

1415chris
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

Nick,
They still speen nicely with no issues. But they haven't done a huge mileage, something like 12k km and did not see much rain. The only thing I did over this time, was cleaning and re-lubricating ratchet system. Having said that, it wasn't necessary.
For me these hubs are a perfect match for this build. Despite not too high max allowed tension of 100kgf, the wheels are stiff and sturdy. They have to carry rather heavy me and cope the roads with not always baby bottom like surface.
During the last trip I spent quite time riding very, I mean very bad roads. If I were in the position of picking components for the next build, I wouldn't hesitate to go for Tune's again.

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Horze
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Transilvania

by Horze

I got around to looking at these rims.

Err.. looking at the rim from the DS with hub aligned, the spoke hole to the right of the valve hole is oriented to the NDS.

So what I;m finding is doing a 3x wheelbuild, the DS is spoke is crossing the valve hole acutely.

Clearly this is an error and the valve hole is in the frigging wrong place on the rim!

Do you disregard the orientation of the spoke holes and build with the spokes in reverse?



EDIT. My bad. The rim has a reversed orientation by design. The key DS spoke is not to the right of the valve hole but the second spoke hole to the right of the valve hole.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#side
Last edited by Horze on Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
7x Forum Racing Ban Champion.

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Horze wrote:I got around to looking at these rims.

Err.. looking at the rim from the DS with hub aligned, the spoke hole to the right of the valve hole is oriented to the NDS.

So what I;m finding is doing a 3x wheelbuild, the DS is spoke is crossing the valve hole acutely.

Clearly this is an error and the valve hole is in the frigging wrong place on the rim!

Do you disregard the orientation of the spoke holes and build with the spokes in reverse?


When I first started wheelbuilding I used Schraner's book, "The art of wheelbuilding".

His method in step 1 puts the #1 spoke to the LEFT of the valve hole and to the drive side. Therefore the spoke to the right goes to the NDS.

All my wheels, Archetype, Pacenti, Open Pro, have been built this way, and that's the way they are oriented.

edit. Over on RBR there's a similar thread with the identical conclusions from others, to what I just said here.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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Horze
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Transilvania

by Horze

I could barely articulate the thread posted at RBR.

Thanks I eventually figured it out.
7x Forum Racing Ban Champion.

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