FarSports 38mm Carbon Clincher Review Thread, The

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
NovemberDave
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
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by NovemberDave

Not to be a d--che about it, but shouldn't the people you're buying from be able to offer you some guidance? Helping people just like you make decisions just like you're considering is how I spend about 25% of my time. Anyone selling a technical product should be well versed in their offerings enough to help their customers. From "because they're more rad" to just plain no credible attempt at an answer, I struggle to believe what people accept for seller service.

by Weenie


bilwit
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Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

NovemberDave wrote:Not to be a d--che about it, but shouldn't the people you're buying from be able to offer you some guidance? Helping people just like you make decisions just like you're considering is how I spend about 25% of my time. Anyone selling a technical product should be well versed in their offerings enough to help their customers. From "because they're more rad" to just plain no credible attempt at an answer, I struggle to believe what people accept for seller service.


I don't think so, potential customers don't really have a case for being that entitled (unless they're moving a large amount of product which isn't the case for end-users), especially when everything asked are either completely subjective or can be researched by themselves with a simple Google search. It's nice to have a company offer to hold your hand but I would neither expect them to or feel inclined to. Asking the community's opinions (who have less bias and actual real world experience) is a much more reasonable and reliable way.

AJS914
Posts: 2368
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Kyle from Farsports will be happy to answer your questions. See his post above.

The road forum though is probably a better place to ask about DT350 vs Novatec hubs rather than hiding it in this topic. I'm also sure one could do searches and find lots of comments on DT350, Novatec hubs, and xray spokes to make a decision.

NovemberDave
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by NovemberDave

bilwit wrote:I don't think so, potential customers don't really have a case for being that entitled (unless they're moving a large amount of product which isn't the case for end-users), especially when everything asked are either completely subjective or can be researched by themselves with a simple Google search. It's nice to have a company offer to hold your hand but I would neither expect them to or feel inclined to. Asking the community's opinions (who have less bias and actual real world experience) is a much more reasonable and reliable way.


Well then I guess I just got a whole crap load more time available! Thanks. :mrgreen:

In all seriousness, if the company you're buying from has bias and lacks extensive real world experience (both first hand and from customer feedback of their products), the entity you're buying from sucks. Forum feedback is great, but the people selling this stuff should have extensive, reliable, and unbiased feedback for customers.

Multebear
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

Seriously Dave?

No reason to be jealous of Farsports for getting a lot of business without having any clue about riding bikes. I seriously don't think they are taking your customers.

Multebear
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

Red7 wrote:I'm about to order some Farsport wheels for my Trek Domane disc bike and read thru this entire thread but still have some questions.

1. What is the benefit of 38mm vs 30mm deep wheels? I realize 38 are a little more aerodynamic but isn't that lost if I'll be using 28c or possibly 32c tires on 25mm wide rims?
2. 30mm weigh 1525 grams vs 1625 for the 38mm (both with DT350 hubs) so what is the benefit of the 38mm that would make it worth the 100 gram penalty?
3. Are the DT350 hubs worth the $80ish increase in price over the Novatec hubs?
4. I weigh 193 lbs (88kg) and it appears like all of the disc wheelsets come with 28 spokes.
5. Is it worth the Sapim CX-Ray spokes vs round Sapim race spokes?
6. What is straight pull vs j bend?
7. I don't plan to go tubless at this time but is there any negative to ordering the rims without spoke holes? How do you change out spokes?

Sorry about all the questions but I'm new at all of this. Thanks so much for your help!



Since no one else has tried, I'll give it a go:

1: 38 is a bit more aero than 30. Not much though. And yes, if you choose 32 mm tires on 25 mm rims, they'll cancel out some of the aeroness. But with your weight, why only 38? You could easily do 50 or 60 mm.
2: Unless you are doing hard accelerations over and over again while climbing, then aero trumps weight.
3: Yes and no. Novatec are good hubs. DT350 are a little better and more durable. I would always choose a top hub like DT over Novatec. But Novatec will still give you many trouble free km's.
4: 28h/28H is normal for disc wheels.
5: The cx rays will give you a slight aero benefit of a few watts. Only you can decide, if that's worth the extra $$.
6: It's the way spokes are attached to the hub. J bend is the shape of the spoke, at the attachment point on the hub. Straight pull is attached differently. J bends are easier to source. But Straight pull are a little stronger. I prefer J bend. And for 28h/28h and 88 kg you don't need that extra strength. Google it for pictures of J bend and SP.
7: Almost any rim can be converted to tubeless with stans rim tape. No need to go without spoke holes. And it's PITA to change spokes without spoke holes, but obviously it's doable. Search youtube for vids.

NovemberDave
Posts: 196
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by NovemberDave

Absolutely serious.

Not jealous, and I agree that there's at best very little overlap between our customer base and theirs. And perhaps Farsports provides good information on this, I don't know and I haven't said they don't - just suggested that a poster should lean on them for some info. There are, however, plenty of "biased, crappy, or non-existing answer" sellers out there with whom we do have considerable overlap.

And I think that to sell stuff to bike people, you should ride them. That's kind of a rule. Don't have to be a Cat 1/A Grade/equivalent (I'm not except for in XCMTB), but you should know what you're doing on a bike.

Multebear
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

With the price tag and quality of Farsports rims, I really don't care how much they know about riding/racing bikes. I've done more than 12.000 km between two wheelsets with rims from Farsports, with no issues at all. I've laced them myself and I've raced and ridden the sh*t out of them. Even had a few crashes. And they still ride like new. I've mostly raced them, so they've had a lot of abuse. One is with CK R45 hubs and the other one with WI T11 hubs. Bot with aerolite spokes. And I'm very happy with the price tag of around $ 400 for two rims including shipping and paypal fee. The way I see it, it's a steal. No need to go Enve, Zipp, Roval at 2-3 times the price.

NovemberDave
Posts: 196
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by NovemberDave

At $400 for two rims, Enve/Zipp/Roval are at least 4x the price - and my/our position is strongly that you aren't getting any benefit from them. I've had one of the above have an issue in my stand in the last month, had a very trusted industry friend report two significant problems with another, and haven't had much contact with the third lately.

Racing is actually fairly easy on carbon wheels in their worst failure mode, and I know that there are safer, stronger, almost certainly faster wheels out there for a hell of a lot less than $400 for two rims. But that's not really the topic. There's a lot of ill-informed info on the internet, and a seller who's selling the "aero" benefit of wheels should have some clue and should publish transparent and defensible data about such, so people aren't made to rely on soft info like "30s will be a little less aero than 38s." And I bet that if you know how much a bladed spoke saves over a round spoke, that info came from a test that we did.

Enjoy your wheels!

Red7
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 am

by Red7

Multebear wrote:
Red7 wrote:I'm about to order some Farsport wheels for my Trek Domane disc bike and read thru this entire thread but still have some questions.

1. What is the benefit of 38mm vs 30mm deep wheels? I realize 38 are a little more aerodynamic but isn't that lost if I'll be using 28c or possibly 32c tires on 25mm wide rims?
2. 30mm weigh 1525 grams vs 1625 for the 38mm (both with DT350 hubs) so what is the benefit of the 38mm that would make it worth the 100 gram penalty?
3. Are the DT350 hubs worth the $80ish increase in price over the Novatec hubs?
4. I weigh 193 lbs (88kg) and it appears like all of the disc wheelsets come with 28 spokes.
5. Is it worth the Sapim CX-Ray spokes vs round Sapim race spokes?
6. What is straight pull vs j bend?
7. I don't plan to go tubless at this time but is there any negative to ordering the rims without spoke holes? How do you change out spokes?

Sorry about all the questions but I'm new at all of this. Thanks so much for your help!



Since no one else has tried, I'll give it a go:

1: 38 is a bit more aero than 30. Not much though. And yes, if you choose 32 mm tires on 25 mm rims, they'll cancel out some of the aeroness. But with your weight, why only 38? You could easily do 50 or 60 mm.
2: Unless you are doing hard accelerations over and over again while climbing, then aero trumps weight.
3: Yes and no. Novatec are good hubs. DT350 are a little better and more durable. I would always choose a top hub like DT over Novatec. But Novatec will still give you many trouble free km's.
4: 28h/28H is normal for disc wheels.
5: The cx rays will give you a slight aero benefit of a few watts. Only you can decide, if that's worth the extra $$.
6: It's the way spokes are attached to the hub. J bend is the shape of the spoke, at the attachment point on the hub. Straight pull is attached differently. J bends are easier to source. But Straight pull are a little stronger. I prefer J bend. And for 28h/28h and 88 kg you don't need that extra strength. Google it for pictures of J bend and SP.
7: Almost any rim can be converted to tubeless with stans rim tape. No need to go without spoke holes. And it's PITA to change spokes without spoke holes, but obviously it's doable. Search youtube for vids.


Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it! I think I have everything settled except I'm curious what pros and cons there are between 38 and 50mm? 50s weigh 1700 vs 1625 grams for 38s. Where I ride near Asheville, NC isn't very windy usually so crosswinds shouldn't be an issue. What about ride quality, are the 50s noticeably stiffer? I'm fairly sure I'll go with 38s unless there are some notable pros with the 50s. Thanks again!

Multebear
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

I´m pretty sure, you wont feel any difference in stiffness. I have two wheelsets from Farstports, they are 38 and 50 mm. I don't feel any difference, and I'm around the same weight as you. In very windy conditions, I feel a little bit when riding during crosswinds with the 50 mm ones.

I know this is weightweenies, but you need to stop focusing on wheelweight. It's not important unless you do steep climbs combined with accellereations. Aero is much more important. With your weight I'd say 50 mm is the shallowest you ougt to consider. You could easily get away with 50 and 60 mm. Even 80 mm if it's not too windy.

dmulligan
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:16 pm

by dmulligan

Multebear wrote:I´m pretty sure, you wont feel any difference in stiffness. I have two wheelsets from Farstports, they are 38 and 50 mm. I don't feel any difference, and I'm around the same weight as you. In very windy conditions, I feel a little bit when riding during crosswinds with the 50 mm ones.

I know this is weightweenies, but you need to stop focusing on wheelweight. It's not important unless you do steep climbs combined with accellereations. Aero is much more important. With your weight I'd say 50 mm is the shallowest you ougt to consider. You could easily get away with 50 and 60 mm. Even 80 mm if it's not too windy.

The 75g difference will not be noticed either. Go 50mm or go home.

I have a wheelset that I built up from Light Bicycle rims and I almost got 45mm front and 55mm rear. I got 55mm for both and my only regret is that they didn't have their 65mm deep rims available yet! I live in Calgary in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies so I can't go for any ride without a lot of hill climbing and I still feel that aero trumps weight especially when we are only talking two digit grams. Also I feel my 55mm U shaped rims handle wind better than my V shaped Williams System 30x wheelset or my Open Pro box rims do.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Red7
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 am

by Red7

Thanks guys and honestly, weight isn't a big concern for me since this is my first road bike and I opted for a low-end Domane since I came across a basically brand new one for 1/3rd MSRP with less than 50 miles on it. I just posted the weights so that people on here could compare. It may be foolish for a total roadie newb to be spending money on carbon wheels when he doesn't know squat but I got this bike for about $1200 below budget so I have room to play and have read enough to know that tires and wheels can make one of the biggest improvements in ride quality.

So after reading about how it's better for aero wheels to be wide enough to match up with wider tires (I plan to run 28mm which measure about 30mm) I was a little bummed that I didn't see an option for wider than 25mm Farsports wheels. But then I came across: http://dubaicyclist.com/farsport-58mm-disc-wheels/ and realized they do make 28mm wide rims. So I just contacted Farsports and I can get either 45mm or 58mm deep in the 28mm wide clinchers. I noticed that the similarly spec'ed Enve SES 4.5 AR wheelset (http://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar/) is a 49mm front with a 55mm back. I hate to keep throwing out more variables but now that I have more options....would 45mm deep front and back, 58mm front and back or 45mm front with 58mm back be an ideal setup? With my limited experience I realize anything will be fine and even just throwing some good 28mm wide tires on my stock rims are going to improve the ride but my hope is that whatever wheelset I get can later go onto my next higher-end bike so I'm not investing a bunch of money in something I may later upgrade.

Thanks so much!

Red7
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 am

by Red7

Also, when I inquired if Farsports offered the DT350 J-bend central-locking disc hub in addition to the straight pull they list on their website, the person came back and said they have a 24h J-bend or 28h straight pull DT350 hub. At 190 lbs am I better with 28 or is 24 ok? Or 24 front 28 rear? I'd assume if I went with the deeper 45 or 58mm (in addition to being wider) they'd be stronger with less spoked than a narrower 30mm deep rim, right?

Multebear
Posts: 1156
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

45/55 mm front/rear combo is fine. 49/55 also. Don't get caught up in those small differences. You wont feel the them. A lot of the pros ride with X mm front and X mm rear. You don't have to do the X/Y mm combination. But if you have the option, then just do it. At least it looks good.

Regarding the 24 or 28 spoke issue. It's not really relevant when riding disc brakes. You need at least 24 spokes because of wheel strength for stopping the bike with the disc. You could probably go 24/24 without issues. But 28/28 is just the safe bet.

Don't overthink this. All the options you've mentioned will give you wheels, that you'll appreciate. And if you choose 28/28 spokes, you'll never get get problems with lack of stiffness or lack of durability. But then again, 50 mm rims will be plenty stiff no matter the spoke count.

by Weenie


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