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Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:58 pm
by NGMN
The carbon clincher actually looks a lot like the first wide/shallow wheel Zipp did, the 2009/10 Zipp 303:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/glorycycles/6100156377/

Wasn't a pokey wheel as far as aerodynamics for its depth.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:39 pm
by Imaking20
^Exactly what I was referring to.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:39 pm
by Weenie

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:16 pm
by MichaelB
Smart has mentioned on another forum that the alloy braking surface rim is 500 +/- 10g, and the full carbon one is 480 +/- 15g ea.


The english names are not normally a translation, but often what they thinbk is good. That's why you get names like Bridger, Kermit etc (have been to and dealt with Chinese companies a few times). Sometimes, the names can be quite funny.

I am currently building up a set of disc 29er rims from farsports for my Volagi.

The rims are 23mm wide x 25mm deep, and were 371 and 375g ea. With CM hubs and Pillar bladed spokes (28 & 32H x3), they came in at 1421g for the pair.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:17 pm
by prendrefeu
CharlesM wrote:The shapes not zipps... Especially the aly rim version. The inside (spoke bed)edge is more pointy (either on accident or because they couldnt make the rim bed strong enough with the more rounded shape) and the side walls getting closer together are counter to the Rounded but wider design trend(as well as not being wide relative to the majors).

As knock offs go, this probably could have been quite a bit better all round.


We really, really, really need to have that 4th party test happen.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:28 am
by ms6073
prendrefeu wrote:Smart (yes, that's his name, probably a direct translation from his Chinese name) over at FarSports
I may be wrong but I think as far as Smart is concerned, 'he' is actually a 'she'.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:44 am
by prendrefeu
Well there you go then. :oops:

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:40 am
by shadwell
@ CharlesM,

Mate to improve the knock off they could put a Zipp sticker on it... then you'd be right.. :lol:

Enjoyed your reviews of the Zipp facility and product (and many other pieces you have made), perhaps some feedback on Enve Smart, HED and Bontrager products from yourself may present a more balanced opinion, and therefore more valuable in the eyes of the readers in pleb land (i.e. here....) Last thing anyone wants is to be seen as a fanboy....
:thumbup:

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:00 am
by Tinea Pedis

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:01 am
by prendrefeu
Rims weight as below:
-Superlight 50mm clincher rims with 25mm wide: 480g+/-10g/Piece
-Superlight 50mm clincher rims with alloy brake surface: 500g+/-10g/Piece

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:39 am
by CharlesM
shadwell wrote:@ CharlesM,

Mate to improve the knock off they could put a Zipp sticker on it... then you'd be right.. :lol:

Enjoyed your reviews of the Zipp facility and product (and many other pieces you have made), perhaps some feedback on Enve Smart, HED and Bontrager products from yourself may present a more balanced opinion, and therefore more valuable in the eyes of the readers in pleb land (i.e. here....) Last thing anyone wants is to be seen as a fanboy....
:thumbup:



Shad, honestly, as relates to bike parts, the last thing I want is to have put incorrect info out. It has happened and I appreciate being corrected.

That's quite a bit higher priority than trying to provide a universaly accepted opinion re my motivation for writing something.

Some folks will find what I write extremely usefull and some will never be satisfied. I'm fine with being somewhere in between.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:28 pm
by petromyzon
Perfectly willing to accept that aerodynamics is a subtle science. However, I genuinely enjoy building my own wheels so if the price was right and I was reasonably convinced the carbon clinchers were safe I'd be tempted. They may well not be as fast as 404s.

20g difference for alloy vs full carbon is even less than I expected however.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:40 pm
by Nismo4x4
The 4.6mm difference in width certainly attributes to the weight difference in the carbon and alloy brake tracks, according to Prend's diagram.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:47 pm
by eric
petromyzon wrote:if I was reasonably convinced the carbon clinchers were safe I'd be tempted.


The FarSports with basalt brake tracks seem to do pretty well. I have the lighter narrow 50mm clinchers, and a set of their tubulars. I've used the clinchers on some ugly descents, including the worst one that is used in a race in my district. It decends 2000' in 4 miles and has many tight hairpins. It's so bad that the race organizers station a course worker/EMT with a radio every half mile and have at least one ambulance standing by. I always see at least two crashed riders when I go down it in the race.

When I descended it in the first chase group my FarSport wheels did not overheat, even though we were held up by a race vehicle and I had to brake more than I normally would.

There are even uglier descents here in NorCal, and a few in SoCal, that I would not descend on carbon wheels period. But to be honest most people don't have roads like these to ride.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:31 am
by gregalfa
Wider rims were introduce by Gigantex at Taipei show 2012. I got the drawing since Nov 2011 for the next year product to review for one company I consult to. The basalt breaking surface has been introduce by Gigantex as well, maybe 5 years ago since Chinese did not play a big role in rim production.
Now there is another company making the rim using "Technola" to withstand the heat. Technola is more or less similar to kevlar but it has not been in production because they just cannot find the right epoxy mixture to hold carbon and kevlar together at the breaking surface. The company has a lab to create the just right epoxy. But they only offer normal width rim.

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:31 am
by Weenie

Re: Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:18 am
by shadwell
Hey nick,
Yeah read Caley's thoughts... And agreed... And sent a MSG to him congratulating him on the piece..

Charles, I rate your work, I actually would love to have your comparative thoughts and compiled dara in the leading wheels to make more clear the independent differences as manuf. white papers as good and make for great reading, but reading the opinion of those who you have developed respect for due to their portfolio of work to date is better IMO..

So chop chop, wheel review please mate... ;)

As an aside having eastern competitions will I hope continue to drive the leaders forward, and that's good news for me cos that's where my cash will and has to date ended up...

Cheers all.....