Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Hexsense
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

mpulsiv wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
Have you pulled the trigger? I'm still on the fence after reading a comment about instability due to rim profile and braking performance.
"Customer review" from https://reynoldscycling.com/collections ... ducts/aero
"I have a pair of wheels I built with Light Bicycle 65 rims out of China. Those are built well and are actually almost as fast as Reynolds 65. Light Bicycle are scary unstable. Plus the braking isn't anywhere near as good. The braking of Reynolds 65 is powerful and smooth. There's no pulsating at all. They're laterally very stiff and responsive, and the rear hub engages extremely fast."

On a positive note, LB WR56C02 was proven to perform well. Kudos to Reynolds for teardrop rim profile which makes it stable in crosswinds.
Pretty sure he writes 65 and not 56. The 65 is an older narrower U shape rim. Which wouldn't perform well with modern wider tires. The new 56 would be much better.

I'm one of the earliest in this thread to ride LB 56mm disc. It is dead stable when using tire narrower than rim (25c at 29mm) with Sram disc rotor and less stable but still fine with a bit wider tire and thick Shimano Ultegra disc rotor.

by Weenie


User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:52 pm
mpulsiv wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
Have you pulled the trigger? I'm still on the fence after reading a comment about instability due to rim profile and braking performance.
"Customer review" from https://reynoldscycling.com/collections ... ducts/aero
"I have a pair of wheels I built with Light Bicycle 65 rims out of China. Those are built well and are actually almost as fast as Reynolds 65. Light Bicycle are scary unstable. Plus the braking isn't anywhere near as good. The braking of Reynolds 65 is powerful and smooth. There's no pulsating at all. They're laterally very stiff and responsive, and the rear hub engages extremely fast."

On a positive note, LB WR56C02 was proven to perform well. Kudos to Reynolds for teardrop rim profile which makes it stable in crosswinds.
Pretty sure he writes 65 and not 56. The 65 is an older narrower U shape rim. Which wouldn't perform well with modern wider tires. The new 56 would be much better.

I'm one of the earliest in this thread to ride LB 56mm disc. It is dead stable when using tire narrower than rim (25c at 29mm) with Sram disc rotor and less stable but still fine with a bit wider tire and thick Shimano Ultegra disc rotor.
Thanks for clarity. Based on my understanding from Hambini, poor tire/rim proportion (e.g. blunt body) contributes to instability, even with shallower wheels (e.g. 35mm). As soon as your tire is wider than the rim, non only you are giving up watts but also risk instability in windy conditions. Thumbs up to LB for making WR56C02 30mm wide!

Looking at the timeline, we are circling back :noidea:
Rim profille: V-shape -> Reynolds teardrop -> Torroidal -> U-Shape -> V-shape -> NACA airfoil -> Reynold DET (dispersive effect termination)

V-shape perform better at near zero yaw angle
U-shape perform better at high angle (e.g. 15+ degrees)
Based on Easton's aero paper, U-shape seem to be a better choice.

http://www.eastoncycling.com/media/Aerodynamics.pdf
Image
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

AJS914
Posts: 3126
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

My recent Farsports order shipped after just 3 days. That's way faster than I expected!

Velt
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:54 am

by Velt

I ordered some wheels from Yishun. ASD50C-TLR-DISC with DT Swiss 240. They were cheaper than the Farsports 40mmx30mm gravel wheels with 240 hub even with the 10% discount. Paid on a Tuesday, posted on a Friday, received the next Thursday (West Aus). I also asked for some additional spare spokes cut and included which they obliged at US2.5 per. Communication was good and there doesn't appear to be any issues with the wheelset visually. My kitchen scale is broken so I'll get them weighed sometime and post pictures.

They included a roll of rim tape but I don't think its wide enough for the rim. The tape is ~18mm wide and looks like it will only cover the centre channel. (advice on this would be appreciated as I've never had to buy/install my own tape)

GlacialPace
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:37 am

by GlacialPace

AJS914 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:42 pm
My recent Farsports order shipped after just 3 days. That's way faster than I expected!
Lucky, mine has been six days and no shipping yet.

Velt
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:54 am

by Velt

My Wheels are the 50mm ASD version. Yishun doesn't have a weight for these wheels but lists the 44: 240S-ASD44C-DISC (1515g)
Attachments
2018-11-17 10.36.40.jpg
2018-11-17 10.35.49.jpg

AJS914
Posts: 3126
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

What pads do people like for Farsports rims? They will send some kind of black pad included or they offer to sell you Prince Black pads.

GlacialPace
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:37 am

by GlacialPace

Farsports send their wheels with their own 'Ceramic pad'. I have no idea if this is any good as I have not recieved mine yet.
I was wondering if the blue Reynolds Cryo pads would help keep all carbon wheels cool or if it was some thing to do with the rim/pad interface? I have a few quite long quite steep descents here that I as slightly concerned about and if they will offer me better heat management then they might be worth it.

Pinguin
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

Campa Red or Swiss Stop Black Prince are at the moment the best Pads you can get for your money,
Wiggle Lifeline Blue are a little cheaper but also works fine

jeanjacques
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:01 am
Location: France

by jeanjacques

elzilcho wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:35 pm
I placed an order on 11.13 for the Farsports 40mmx30mm gravel wheels.
Great, very interested by your report :)
At 410g, this rim seem to be one of the lightest with this dimensions.

TheKaiser
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

mpulsiv wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
TheKaiser wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:51 pm
I sent a message to LB looking for more pics and info on what their grooved brake tracks are like, as the stuff on their website all looked like it was picturing the disc configuration, and the description is rather vague. For instance, are the grooves running radially like on a Zipp Showstopper, or are they circumferential like a Mavic aluminum rim? Also, are they molded in, or machined after molding?

Replying to myself, I got pics of the new brake tracks from LB. Not sure if they are machined or molded yet, but I'd guess machined. They look pretty clearly "inspired" by the Zipp Showstopper brake tracks which have gotten pretty good reviews from what I've seen. LB also said their new use of graphene is not just in the brake tracks, but instead is graphene powder added to the resin, which is used on the whole rim structure. I'd be curious to know how much graphene changes the heat flow through the resin/fiber matrix. I know continuous graphene fibers are supposed to be great conductors, but in this sort of random orientataion it is tough to tell how much of a benefit it is without some real test data. It would be nice if it could help spread that heat out over the whole body of the rim rather than keeping it localized right in the most vulnerable and failure prone part, the brake track. Just thinking out loud, it could also make the resin stronger, even if it doesn't substantially change heat flow, although other companies (Easton jumps to mind) have tried doping their resin with carbon nano particles before and seem to have abanonded the tech without much explaination.
Have you pulled the trigger? I'm still on the fence after reading a comment about instability due to rim profile and braking performance.
"Customer review" from https://reynoldscycling.com/collections ... ducts/aero
"I have a pair of wheels I built with Light Bicycle 65 rims out of China. Those are built well and are actually almost as fast as Reynolds 65. Light Bicycle are scary unstable. Plus the braking isn't anywhere near as good. The braking of Reynolds 65 is powerful and smooth. There's no pulsating at all. They're laterally very stiff and responsive, and the rear hub engages extremely fast."

On a positive note, LB WR56C02 was proven to perform well. Kudos to Reynolds for teardrop rim profile which makes it stable in crosswinds.
Not yet. Since I am looking for a rim brake model, I was originally looking at 28mm options, as the newest gen Shimano brakes are approved for use with 28mm rims although that approval requires a special thinner aftermarket pad (which I think simply has less pad material, so you could probably just sand down your regular pads). I'd love to go 30mm and on the one hand, its only 1mm per side wider, but on the other hand, if 28mm really requires a special thin pad then there isn't much more room to spare. Since we already have snow here, I have some time to mull it over and hopefully see some user reports of people trying to fit 30mm rims in R7/8/9000 calipers. I've seen other folks saying that Sram calipers have substantially more clearance, so I also thought of picking up a set of them to try out, although with the different cable pull ratio they would theoretically lose some power when used with Shimano levers.

Oh, and FYI, the texturing on the new LB rims is apparently carved in via laser after molding the rims. This is in in contrast to the Zipps where the grooves are part of the mold, but LB is using the same molds for both rim and disc models so they have to add it after the fact. Not sure how much that matters, but thought it was an interesting factoid.
Last edited by TheKaiser on Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

TheKaiser wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:45 pm
mpulsiv wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
TheKaiser wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:51 pm
I sent a message to LB looking for more pics and info on what their grooved brake tracks are like, as the stuff on their website all looked like it was picturing the disc configuration, and the description is rather vague. For instance, are the grooves running radially like on a Zipp Showstopper, or are they circumferential like a Mavic aluminum rim? Also, are they molded in, or machined after molding?

Replying to myself, I got pics of the new brake tracks from LB. Not sure if they are machined or molded yet, but I'd guess machined. They look pretty clearly "inspired" by the Zipp Showstopper brake tracks which have gotten pretty good reviews from what I've seen. LB also said their new use of graphene is not just in the brake tracks, but instead is graphene powder added to the resin, which is used on the whole rim structure. I'd be curious to know how much graphene changes the heat flow through the resin/fiber matrix. I know continuous graphene fibers are supposed to be great conductors, but in this sort of random orientataion it is tough to tell how much of a benefit it is without some real test data. It would be nice if it could help spread that heat out over the whole body of the rim rather than keeping it localized right in the most vulnerable and failure prone part, the brake track. Just thinking out loud, it could also make the resin stronger, even if it doesn't substantially change heat flow, although other companies (Easton jumps to mind) have tried doping their resin with carbon nano particles before and seem to have abanonded the tech without much explaination.
Have you pulled the trigger? I'm still on the fence after reading a comment about instability due to rim profile and braking performance.
"Customer review" from https://reynoldscycling.com/collections ... ducts/aero
"I have a pair of wheels I built with Light Bicycle 65 rims out of China. Those are built well and are actually almost as fast as Reynolds 65. Light Bicycle are scary unstable. Plus the braking isn't anywhere near as good. The braking of Reynolds 65 is powerful and smooth. There's no pulsating at all. They're laterally very stiff and responsive, and the rear hub engages extremely fast."

On a positive note, LB WR56C02 was proven to perform well. Kudos to Reynolds for teardrop rim profile which makes it stable in crosswinds.
Not yet. Since I am looking for a rim brake model, I was originally looking at 28mm options, as the newest gen Shimano brakes are approved for use with 28mm rims although that approval requires a special thinner aftermarket pad (which I think simply has less pad material, so you could probably just sand down your regular pads). I'd love to go 30mm and on the one hand, its only 1mm per side wider, but on the other hand, if 28mm really requires a special thin pad then there isn't much more room to spare. Since we already have snow here, I have some time to mull it over and hopefully see some user reports of people trying to fit 30mm rims in R7/8/9000 calipers. I've seen other folks saying that Sram calipers have substantially more clearance, so I also thought of picking up a set of them to try out, although with the different cable pull ratio they would theoretically lose some power when used with Shimano levers.
28mm wide rim is not even a concern. As a matter of fact, modern brake caliper can squeeze 30mm rim.
This is Potenza brake caliper with brand new pad with an opening of 32.5mm wide.

Image
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

fizzaz
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:02 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

by fizzaz

Does anyone have pictures of the newer gen Shimano R7/8/9000 with a 28 or 30 mm rim with a tire mounted?

TheKaiser
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

mpulsiv wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:22 pm
28mm wide rim is not even a concern. As a matter of fact, modern brake caliper can squeeze 30mm rim.
This is Potenza brake caliper with brand new pad with an opening of 32.5mm wide.

Image
That's great to hear, thanks! BTW, before I saw this reply, I edited my above post as I originally forgot to include the tidbit that LB are using a laser to apply the grooves to the new rims.

by Weenie


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mpulsiv
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

fizzaz wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:03 am
Does anyone have pictures of the newer gen Shimano R7/8/9000 with a 28 or 30 mm rim with a tire mounted?
I don't think we need to worry about brake caliper clearance. See my picture above. Potenza and Dura Ace 9000 open ~32mm wide. These are last generation.
R7/8/9100 are wider.
Specialized Roval CL 50 and CLX 64 are UCI approved wheels, used at Grand Tour. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't release wheels to the public that can't clear modern rim calipers.
29.4mm wide www.specialized.com/us/en/roval-cl-50-wheelset/p/156043
29.9mm wide https://rovalcomponents.com/collections ... eam-clx-64
30mm wide https://shop.venn-cycling.com/index.php ... bon-wheels
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

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