Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Jugi
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:23 pm
Would be 25 mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubless to small and therefore too risky for this inner rim width?
Check my post from August, it has got a pair of RR56C02 rims with 25/28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones pictured side by side.

After riding both 25mm and 28mm Pro Ones as a front tire with these rims, I can’t tell much difference. The 28mm has a bit more rolling mass and it’s logical to run it with a little less pressure, so it is slightly more comfortable or sluggish (which ever is the over-powering feeling). Neither one feel less ”secure” by any means.

Cattiy
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

Jugi wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:38 pm
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:23 pm
Would be 25 mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubless to small and therefore too risky for this inner rim width?
Check my post from August, it has got a pair of RR56C02 rims with 25/28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones pictured side by side.

After riding both 25mm and 28mm Pro Ones as a front tire with these rims, I can’t tell much difference. The 28mm has a bit more rolling mass and it’s logical to run it with a little less pressure, so it is slightly more comfortable or sluggish (which ever is the over-powering feeling). Neither one feel less ”secure” by any means.
Thank you very much! 29 mm actual width of 25 mm Schwalbe Pro Ones is a real bummer, because the 29 mm would violate the 105% rule I am aiming for.

by Weenie


User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:18 pm
Jugi wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:38 pm
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:23 pm
Would be 25 mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubless to small and therefore too risky for this inner rim width?
Check my post from August, it has got a pair of RR56C02 rims with 25/28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones pictured side by side.

After riding both 25mm and 28mm Pro Ones as a front tire with these rims, I can’t tell much difference. The 28mm has a bit more rolling mass and it’s logical to run it with a little less pressure, so it is slightly more comfortable or sluggish (which ever is the over-powering feeling). Neither one feel less ”secure” by any means.
Thank you very much! 29 mm actual width of 25 mm Schwalbe Pro Ones is a real bummer, because the 29 mm would violate the 105% rule I am aiming for.
When it comes to 105% rule, wheel selection is scarce for any tire wider than 28mm.

For disc there's Reynolds ATR at 32mm wide https://reynoldscycling.com/products/atr-700, Enve SES 4.5 AR at 30.5-31mm wide https://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar and Cannondale HollowGram KNOT64 at 32mm wide. Hunt is slated to release 36mm wide rim https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 4&t=153139

For rim, there's Venn Var at 30mm wide https://shop.venn-cycling.com/index.php ... bon-wheels, Roval CL50 at 29.4mm wide www.specialized.com/us/en/roval-cl-50-w ... 056-134230 and LB WR56C02 at 30mm wide www.lightbicycle.com/700C-V-shape-56mm- ... tible.html

I'm not aware of anything else out there when it comes wider than 30mm rim profile to contribute to 105% rule.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Cattiy
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

mpulsiv wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:42 pm
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:18 pm
Jugi wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:38 pm
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:23 pm
Would be 25 mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubless to small and therefore too risky for this inner rim width?
Check my post from August, it has got a pair of RR56C02 rims with 25/28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones pictured side by side.

After riding both 25mm and 28mm Pro Ones as a front tire with these rims, I can’t tell much difference. The 28mm has a bit more rolling mass and it’s logical to run it with a little less pressure, so it is slightly more comfortable or sluggish (which ever is the over-powering feeling). Neither one feel less ”secure” by any means.
Thank you very much! 29 mm actual width of 25 mm Schwalbe Pro Ones is a real bummer, because the 29 mm would violate the 105% rule I am aiming for.
When it comes to 105% rule, wheel selection is scarce for any tire wider than 28mm.

For disc there's Reynolds ATR at 32mm wide https://reynoldscycling.com/products/atr-700, Enve SES 4.5 AR at 30.5-31mm wide https://enve.com/products/ses-4-5-ar and Cannondale HollowGram KNOT64 at 32mm wide. Hunt is slated to release 36mm wide rim https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 4&t=153139

For rim, there's Venn Var at 30mm wide https://shop.venn-cycling.com/index.php ... bon-wheels, Roval CL50 at 29.4mm wide www.specialized.com/us/en/roval-cl-50-w ... 056-134230 and LB WR56C02 at 30mm wide www.lightbicycle.com/700C-V-shape-56mm- ... tible.html

I'm not aware of anything else out there when it comes wider than 30mm rim profile to contribute to 105% rule.
Maybe I should sell the 25 mm pair and just buy a 23 mm pair.

ericoschmitt
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:44 pm

Maybe I should sell the 25 mm pair and just buy a 23 mm pair.
Or keep both 25's for the rear and get one new 23 for the front, since rear tire will probably wear twice as fast, and wider rear tire gives you more in RR and comfort than you will loose in aero.

Cattiy
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

ericoschmitt wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:05 am
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:44 pm

Maybe I should sell the 25 mm pair and just buy a 23 mm pair.
Or keep both 25's for the rear and get one new 23 for the front, since rear tire will probably wear twice as fast, and wider rear tire gives you more in RR and comfort than you will loose in aero.
Then I must repeat my question can I fit a 23 mm tire on 23 mm inner width rim?

alcatraz
Posts: 1337
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Cattiy wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:19 am
ericoschmitt wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:05 am
Cattiy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:44 pm

Maybe I should sell the 25 mm pair and just buy a 23 mm pair.
Or keep both 25's for the rear and get one new 23 for the front, since rear tire will probably wear twice as fast, and wider rear tire gives you more in RR and comfort than you will loose in aero.
Then I must repeat my question can I fit a 23 mm tire on 23 mm inner width rim?
Sure you can but for such wide rims you'd probably be better off running 25c in front and 28c in the rear. Aerodynamically speaking.

28mm wide toroidal rims with 25mm brake track width have around 18mm internal width. A 23C fits very nicely on the front wheel of such a rim. If your rims are 5 mm wider then you should size upwards a step or two. Those wheels are great for gravel, coarse roads or heavy riders.

Running 25/28 will have lower RR than 23/25. Going too wide will sacrifice aero performance but with such wide rims you are in no risk of that. :lol:

Remember that different brands have different real widths. Vittoria can sometimes measure less than the specified and Continental can be 3mm over the specified. It makes a huge difference.

Ideally (taken from a paper I read long ago) you want the real measured tire width to be around 90% of the outer rim width at it's widest point. At least on your front wheel where most of the aero gains are. So for a 28mm toroidal rim a tire that blows up to ~25mm would be good. A conti 23C would most likely do that or a vittoria 25C.

GlacialPace
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:37 am

by GlacialPace

Looking for some opinions on Farsports wheel builds, I'll be buying some in the 11.11 sale, but I am unsure which hubs and rims to go for.
For hubs I think the Ed hub might be a bit light weight, I'd rather something that had a bit more standard sized bearings for ease of replacement down the line, so it'll be either the bitex rar12 setup, or the bitex 303, which looks to me like a straight pull version of the rar12. Then I need to decide if I go 12 spokes a side or 8/16 triplet lacing for the rear, thoughts?
Then the rim. It'll either be the 50mm deep, 25mm wide tubeless one, or the 58mm deep, 28mm wide one, which I don't think is tubeless. I'm swaying towards the wider one as I would like to be able to run a 26c cotton turbo on it without compromising the aero benefits. But I do live somewhere with a lot of hills and it is heavier, also, is tubeless better than it was 6 years ago? I had it then and it was a pain. Holes wouldn't seal up above 50psi and the tyre was almost impossible to remove road side with a plastic tyre lever. Ruined a few rides.
Lastly, with either option what are your thoughts on latex tubes in carbon clinchers?

Marin
Posts: 3132
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

All your questions have been answered several times in this thread and others on here. I know because I gave some of the answers too :)

ericoschmitt
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

GlacialPace wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:30 am
Looking for some opinions on Farsports wheel builds, I'll be buying some in the 11.11 sale, but I am unsure which hubs and rims to go for.
For hubs I think the Ed hub might be a bit light weight, I'd rather something that had a bit more standard sized bearings for ease of replacement down the line, so it'll be either the bitex rar12 setup, or the bitex 303, which looks to me like a straight pull version of the rar12. Then I need to decide if I go 12 spokes a side or 8/16 triplet lacing for the rear, thoughts?
Then the rim. It'll either be the 50mm deep, 25mm wide tubeless one, or the 58mm deep, 28mm wide one, which I don't think is tubeless. I'm swaying towards the wider one as I would like to be able to run a 26c cotton turbo on it without compromising the aero benefits. But I do live somewhere with a lot of hills and it is heavier, also, is tubeless better than it was 6 years ago? I had it then and it was a pain. Holes wouldn't seal up above 50psi and the tyre was almost impossible to remove road side with a plastic tyre lever. Ruined a few rides.
Lastly, with either option what are your thoughts on latex tubes in carbon clinchers?
I got these Bitex 66g front and 190g rear hubs (J bend) and I like them. I'm not thinking about spending more money on any boutique hubs now. And I got a brand new set of wheels laced to Record hubs that I'm probably selling without riding.

I'm inclined to buy wheels (or rims + build) in this 11/11 sale, either this LB 56 or "risk" BTLOS 60. These BTLOS look really nice, and the reviews on their MTB wheels seem pretty positive. Their road range is quite new, so I couldn't find reviews. But if their claims are true, they must be a wonder. I guess someone has to be the first to buy them and post a review here...

Also my road bike has caliper brakes, not sure they can handle such a wide rim as the LB 56.

The other option yet is Yoeleo, which seems to be pretty solid...

On any of them I'm going for Bitex J-bend hubs.

I never built 8:16 but sounds like a good idea. On my 12:12 rear wheel, the NDS rear spokes went loose after 165km, and I'm replacing the grease on the thread with loctite. The DS spokes were already at the maximum rim tension (120kgf), and they were tensioned with tires on pumped to 100psi. This could be because Alpha 360 rims are more flexy than carbon, so a deep carbon rim would probably show no problems with 12:12 (well, my zipp is just fine...). Anyway, I'm still getting bitex, and I guess loctite will solve my problem on this Alpha 340 build.

AJS914
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I'm in the same boat. I've decided to get either the Farsports 50mm (25mm wide) or their 45mm (28mm wide). The 58mm (28 wide) rim looks tempting too but I've never ridden deep wheels and I'm concerned about getting blown around. I mostly want the wheels for the aero benefit on fast group rides (22-30mph).

I was thinking of going for the DT Swiss 350 hubs. They are around $80 more than the cheaper hubs but potentially more reliable. I'm not concerned with weight since it's very flat here.

Cattiy
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:08 pm

by Cattiy

ericoschmitt wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 pm
GlacialPace wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:30 am
Looking for some opinions on Farsports wheel builds, I'll be buying some in the 11.11 sale, but I am unsure which hubs and rims to go for.
For hubs I think the Ed hub might be a bit light weight, I'd rather something that had a bit more standard sized bearings for ease of replacement down the line, so it'll be either the bitex rar12 setup, or the bitex 303, which looks to me like a straight pull version of the rar12. Then I need to decide if I go 12 spokes a side or 8/16 triplet lacing for the rear, thoughts?
Then the rim. It'll either be the 50mm deep, 25mm wide tubeless one, or the 58mm deep, 28mm wide one, which I don't think is tubeless. I'm swaying towards the wider one as I would like to be able to run a 26c cotton turbo on it without compromising the aero benefits. But I do live somewhere with a lot of hills and it is heavier, also, is tubeless better than it was 6 years ago? I had it then and it was a pain. Holes wouldn't seal up above 50psi and the tyre was almost impossible to remove road side with a plastic tyre lever. Ruined a few rides.
Lastly, with either option what are your thoughts on latex tubes in carbon clinchers?
I got these Bitex 66g front and 190g rear hubs (J bend) and I like them. I'm not thinking about spending more money on any boutique hubs now. And I got a brand new set of wheels laced to Record hubs that I'm probably selling without riding.

I'm inclined to buy wheels (or rims + build) in this 11/11 sale, either this LB 56 or "risk" BTLOS 60. These BTLOS look really nice, and the reviews on their MTB wheels seem pretty positive. Their road range is quite new, so I couldn't find reviews. But if their claims are true, they must be a wonder. I guess someone has to be the first to buy them and post a review here...

Also my road bike has caliper brakes, not sure they can handle such a wide rim as the LB 56.

The other option yet is Yoeleo, which seems to be pretty solid...

On any of them I'm going for Bitex J-bend hubs.

I never built 8:16 but sounds like a good idea. On my 12:12 rear wheel, the NDS rear spokes went loose after 165km, and I'm replacing the grease on the thread with loctite. The DS spokes were already at the maximum rim tension (120kgf), and they were tensioned with tires on pumped to 100psi. This could be because Alpha 360 rims are more flexy than carbon, so a deep carbon rim would probably show no problems with 12:12 (well, my zipp is just fine...). Anyway, I'm still getting bitex, and I guess loctite will solve my problem on this Alpha 340 build.
Will LB also have sales on 11/11 or only Farsports?

Marin
Posts: 3132
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

11/11 is an Aliexpress sale, and AFAIK LB don't sell on Ali.

ericoschmitt
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

Oh well.. not sure. But BTLOS says they will in 11/11 so I'll wait for it and decide until then.

by Weenie


AJS914
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

LB is advertising "black friday is coming, up to 30% off". No details though.

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