Open mold wide profile carbon wheels

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
kuniyokeiji
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:23 am

by kuniyokeiji

Beaver wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 am
kuniyokeiji wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:13 pm
more concerned about the build quality
They are in the business for several years and offer a 110% money back guarantee - I think those shouldn't be complete junk. ;)

And they are even UCI approved. ;)
u mean the LB rims? so LB over yishun then?

by Weenie


lwk
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:02 am

by lwk

Decided to buy some 46mm rims from LB after having been a loyal supporter to yishunbike.
85FFC0C8-4217-4DED-B442-06A249657C26.jpeg
Planning to buy a set of carbon ti hubs for these

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protocol_droid
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:40 am
Location: San Diego, CA

by protocol_droid

lwk wrote:Decided to buy some 46mm rims from LB after having been a loyal supporter to yishunbike.
85FFC0C8-4217-4DED-B442-06A249657C26.jpeg
Planning to buy a set of carbon ti hubs for these
whats the weight on those 46mm?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

naked 3po, the first weight weenie.

Hexsense
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

emotive wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:16 am
But at the same time, the weight penalty for road disc is dropping. Disc frames are getting closer to rim frame weights, and disc rims are getting lighter as they remove the brake track from the design. LB will have road flyweight designs later this year...
I guess you are right.

Lets compare the same shifter and cable to make it simple:
Dura-ace rim brake weight 326g
On disc side, Juin Tech F1, hybrid hydraulic cable pull brake weight 284g for two calipers, but it also need rotors which are 200-250g for two rotors -> total braking system= 534g
Disc rim weight 30g less than rim brake version, each -> 60g saved for two wheels
Then 4 extra spokes in the front (24h instead of 20h, also longer as we need 2x lacing instead of radial), disc hub weight more than rim brake hub, disc frame and fork may weight more than rim brake version. Titanium Thru-axle weight more than Ti Quick release (but about the same as Dura-ace steel quick release).

It getting close, but still more. Not sure how much worse for the aero though.

lwk
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:02 am

by lwk

protocol_droid wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:13 am
lwk wrote:Decided to buy some 46mm rims from LB after having been a loyal supporter to yishunbike.
85FFC0C8-4217-4DED-B442-06A249657C26.jpeg

Planning to buy a set of carbon ti hubs for these
whats the weight on those 46mm?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
The weights are 468g and 474g. I ordered them without spoke holes in rim bed, so no rim tape needed and easier tubeless set-up

kuniyokeiji
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:23 am

by kuniyokeiji

lwk wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:13 pm
Decided to buy some 46mm rims from LB after having been a loyal supporter to yishunbike.
85FFC0C8-4217-4DED-B442-06A249657C26.jpeg

Planning to buy a set of carbon ti hubs for these
hi, may i know about your experience with yishunbike carbon rims?

lwk
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:02 am

by lwk

kuniyokeiji wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:58 am
lwk wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:13 pm
Decided to buy some 46mm rims from LB after having been a loyal supporter to yishunbike.
85FFC0C8-4217-4DED-B442-06A249657C26.jpeg

Planning to buy a set of carbon ti hubs for these
hi, may i know about your experience with yishunbike carbon rims?
my experience with yishun was positive. My 1st set was 50/60mm which I rode for around 3 years before selling them. Had them laced to WI T11 hubs. My current set is their 33mm rim which I’m using as a disc wheelset. Have been riding them for nearly a year now and have no complaints. Decided to go LB route because of the more V shape which I prefer and most other rims for the the same profile tend to be lightly heavier. Also didn’t want a 38mm rim as it’s way to common. I like to be different :D
Yishun rims are well made should you decide to buy from them. They’ve got a newer 38mm rim that is also slightly more v shaped which looks nice

emotive
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Beaver wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:57 am
And it's a pity they won't offer 21C with 30mm outside for best aerodynamics at the front
Beaver, what do you think of the Asymmetrical Yishun rims?
22C inner, 30mm outer, 38, 44, 50, and 55mm depths.
Asymmetric 2.5mm offset http://www.yishunbike.com/700c-asd-road ... m_p61.html

Perhaps the 22C inner will give a better aero transition to the 30mm outer width with a 25mm tyre than the LB 23C of the LB RR56C02?

Also Symmetrical rims:

21C inner, 30mm outer, 38 and 50mm depths.
http://www.yishunbike.com/700c-rsd-road ... s_p62.html

Maybe 21C inner to 30 outer is even better?

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Beaver
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm
Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

kuniyokeiji wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:05 pm
Beaver wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 am
kuniyokeiji wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:13 pm
more concerned about the build quality
They are in the business for several years and offer a 110% money back guarantee - I think those shouldn't be complete junk. ;)

And they are even UCI approved. ;)
u mean the LB rims? so LB over yishun then?
Tokyowheels are UCI approved and have 110% money back guarantee. ;)
emotive wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:23 pm
Beaver wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:57 am
And it's a pity they won't offer 21C with 30mm outside for best aerodynamics at the front
Beaver, what do you think of the Asymmetrical Yishun rims?
22C inner, 30mm outer, 38, 44, 50, and 55mm depths.
Asymmetric 2.5mm offset http://www.yishunbike.com/700c-asd-road ... m_p61.html

Perhaps the 22C inner will give a better aero transition to the 30mm outer width with a 25mm tyre than the LB 23C of the LB RR56C02?

Also Symmetrical rims:

21C inner, 30mm outer, 38 and 50mm depths.
http://www.yishunbike.com/700c-rsd-road ... s_p62.html

Maybe 21C inner to 30 outer is even better?
What's the tire of your choice?

My 4000S II on front with 4bar are 28.5mm wide on 21C - so the Yishun 21C/30mm rim would be perfect in front - with the new LB 23C/30mm wide rim the tire would be too wide for the 105% rule. :( The latter would be a good fit for the rear, though - with a little more pressure, the tire could be as wide as the rim, which is the minimum here.

But I am not convinced of the flat "box shaped" inner side of the Yishun rims - it's a pity, that it's not rounder there:

Image

That could even eat up the gains of the 105% rule...

emotive
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

Beaver wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:50 pm

What's the tire of your choice?

My 4000S II on front with 4bar are 28.5mm wide on 21C - so the Yishun 21C/30mm rim would be perfect in front - with the new LB 23C/30mm wide rim the tire would be too wide for the 105% rule. :( The latter would be a good fit for the rear, though - with a little more pressure, the tire could be as wide as the rim, which is the minimum here.
I prefer 28mm tyres, but there are no aero wheels for 28's yet. I think I need to let go of using my tyre of choice, and change my thinking to use a wide 25mm tyre to match the wheels available today. On a wide rim the comfort of 25mm will still be very good.

A 25mm GP4000 on a Yishun 50D 30W 21C for the front wheel, and a 25mm GP4000 on a Yishun 55D 28w 19C for the rear would give a similar setup to Enve 4.5 wheelsets. BUT, looking closer at the drawings, the width at the wheel to tyre transition is 2mm less. A 25mm GP4000 on a 21C internal width rim will expand to 29mm measured, but the tyre will only be 28mm at the point it joins the rim, so we still have a bulged tyre shape on the front.
Beaver wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:50 pm
But I am not convinced of the flat "box shaped" inner side of the Yishun rims - it's a pity, that it's not rounder there:

Image

That could even eat up the gains of the 105% rule...
I am also not liking the square shape. The shape and depth remind me of the 44mm Kamm-tail wheels from Zeal, which from their reviews, are a bit sensitive to side wind https://www.zeal-cycling.com/blogs/prod ... ugust-2017

Since the Zeal and the Yishun are both 44mm deep, the handling should be quite similar.
https://www.zeal-cycling.com/collection ... rig-44disc
Maybe we w ill soon see 38mm and 55mm Zeal wheels too.

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Beaver
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm
Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

emotive wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:53 am

I prefer 28mm tyres, but there are no aero wheels for 28's yet. I think I need to let go of using my tyre of choice, and change my thinking to use a wide 25mm tyre to match the wheels available today. On a wide rim the comfort of 25mm will still be very good.

A 25mm GP4000 on a Yishun 50D 30W 21C for the front wheel, and a 25mm GP4000 on a Yishun 55D 28w 19C for the rear would give a similar setup to Enve 4.5 wheelsets. BUT, looking closer at the drawings, the width at the wheel to tyre transition is 2mm less. A 25mm GP4000 on a 21C internal width rim will expand to 29mm measured, but the tyre will only be 28mm at the point it joins the rim, so we still have a bulged tyre shape on the front.
You should be able to run the same pressure on a 25mm tire on 21C as with an 28mm on 17C. With 25C as on Enve SES 4.5 AR you could go even lower. Just try if a 25mm tire on 21C is comfortable enough for you. Aerodynamically you would need a 30.5mm wide rim on front for a real 29mm tire width. :) So Yishun would be too narrow, 28.5mm tire width is the limit. According to Josh Poertner the rim doesn't need to be that wide at the brake track, a little "later" will work just as fine. And have a look at SwissSide rims, those have the widest spot at the inner side of the rim.

The box shape really is the worst aerodynamically - although it's just about a few watts after all (5 watts actually at 45km/h compared to rims the same height in the last Tour Mag. test, which is relatively quite a lot)... but the low crosswind stability adds up:

https://www.tour-magazin.de/komponenten ... 45092.html

They tested the Zeal with 11Nm - that's the same as Zipp 808, which are nearly twice as high...

(and interestingly, they didn't notice the 31mm wide Enve 4.5 AR to be a 25C rim and put a 25mm tire on it - aero performance was great :D But I wouldn't want to ride that setup in real life)

A Kamm tail is great for frame tubes but doesn't make any sense on a rim, as with a wheel the rim is "leading" in the wind and not "leading" in the wind at the same time. :(

kuniyokeiji
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:23 am

by kuniyokeiji

[/quote]
My 4000S II on front with 4bar are 28.5mm wide on 21C - so the Yishun 21C/30mm rim would be perfect in front - with the new LB 23C/30mm wide rim the tire would be too wide for the 105% rule. :( The latter would be a good fit for the rear, though - with a little more pressure, the tire could be as wide as the rim, which is the minimum here.

But I am not convinced of the flat "box shaped" inner side of the Yishun rims - it's a pity, that it's not rounder there:

Image

That could even eat up the gains of the 105% rule...
[/quote]
that is the 25c conti gp4000s right? 21mm wide inner rims will measure to 28.5mm wide ? but the yishun rims is 28/30 wide in front, so the tyre slightly buldge by 0.5mm...

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Beaver
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm
Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

kuniyokeiji wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:43 am
that is the 25c conti gp4000s right? 21mm wide inner rims will measure to 28.5mm wide ? but the yishun rims is 28/30 wide in front, so the tyre slightly buldge by 0.5mm...
The 25mm 4000S II with 4 bars on 21C is that wide. If you run a higher pressure, it will be even wider and you would need at least 30.5 to 31mm up front. ;) And with a rim that wide at the brake track, there are not many rim brakes that will still work...

And yes, directly at the brake track it is 28mm, then 30mm (as seen on Enve, Roval and others) - but according to Josh Poertner the airflow will also stay attached to the rim, if the 105% wide part is a bit further towards the center of the wheel.

Image

But the box shaped inner part of the Yishun rim doesn't really help here to save the last watts. ;)

pushstart
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

I would interject here that there is more significant reason than speculative-wind-tunnel testing to avoid the Yishun asym disc rims. The nipple holes are not "drilled" (molded, presumably) at an angle, which makes for a rather tighter-than-comfotable bend at the spoke entering from the "far" side.

Clearly aero is not a goal with this wheelset!

To be fair, they are quite light (387g for the 33mm-deep) and I have not had spoke problems yet. I do ride them daily (should have over 2000 miles on them by now).

But I would choose the LB rims, especially now that they have lightened up the disc options.Image

by Weenie


inertianinja
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:14 pm

by inertianinja

Is anyone riding 24mm rims anymore?

I'm building up an open mold frame, and I wanted to replace my old (damaged) Fulcrum Racing Zero with something light and low-profile for a 25mm tire.
Seems like most people these days are getting 38mm rims, though.

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