Ceramic Bearings in Record Hubs

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3706
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I also agree high grade (rounder and harder) balls do not wear out races faster. This is why I use grade 10 steel balls when servicing all hubs. Using good balls can make even cheap rough hubs run smooth. As ceramic balls are grade 5 or so they have to very round and that is why they do not wear the races out so quickly.

However given the length of time good cup and cone hubs last I have not bothered trying ceramic ball. My old record high flange hubsare still running like new they mst be 30 years old. not to sure how much use they have seen though.
Fegrove how have you run cult bearings in a cup and cone BB? Did you pull the bearings out of of the cult bearing? Why couldn't you just use grade 5 silicon nitride loose balls.

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5858
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Fdegrove, do you have more information about servicing carbon-shell Campagnolo hubs?


Other than that everyone I asked says you can't do this yourself and the wheels should be sent to an official Campagnolo Service Centre and that Cyclus Tools who manufacture these tools also warns you should not use these on carbon hub shells, no....

I heard the bearings are not glued though as I originally thought they were, but pressed. I suspect it can be done with the proper tools but it may just take more care as too much pressure may well damage the carbon shell as the new races are pressed in. Just guessing here.

Fegrove how have you run cult bearings in a cup and cone BB? Did you pull the bearings out of of the cult bearing? Why couldn't you just use grade 5 silicon nitride loose balls.


The original BB (a Miche Ti Evo something) wasn't a cup and cone one like the old Super Record Ti BB but used standard 6903 bearings which are dimensionally identical to Campagnolo's cup and cone CULT bearings as found in their higher end wheels.
All it took was the spare part kit and a bearing press. The system is adjusted by tightening the NDS side of the BB.
It worked great but as I no longer use it I replaced the CULT bearings for decent ceramic hybrids.
That CULT replacement kit does not come cheap either so I think I'll keep it aside for when I want to upgrade a set of Neutron tubular wheels.

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


User avatar
eurperg
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Finland

by eurperg

Thanks for the info fdegrove. I also found out that spokes need to be removed from carbon hubs in order the get the bearing cups out, that's enough reason for me to not do it myself.

Luckily I was able to get my hubs feel smoother again, took everything apart again, cleaned with Weldtite TF2, wiped the cups with cotton sticks, even separated the balls from the retainers, cleaned with compressed air and re-greased with fresh Galli grease. Just a tiny dirt particle needs to go between the balls and retainer, and the hubs feel jerky and not smooth... :D

Maybe I will keep my Hyperons as dry weather only -wheelset from now on, just to make sure the cups don't go bad in the future...

User avatar
atakaoka
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:29 am
Location: Ibiuna-SP-Brazil

by atakaoka

eurperg wrote:
fdegrove wrote:You will need some special tools to remove the races from the old hub and press the new ones in. These toools are available but aren't exactly cheap.

Do not try this on any of the Campa carbon hub as it will damage the carbon. Those hubs are pressed and glued into place so beware.



Fdegrove, do you have more information about servicing carbon-shell Campagnolo hubs?

I have Hyperon tubulars (pre-ultra) with steel races and bearing, and I'm planning on rebuilding them because they didn't feel totally smooth after cleaning and re-greasing. Tools and spare parts are ready, but now I'm scared to remove the old races after you mentioned the glue...


if it`s the front wheel tou will need to complet disassemby the wheel because the spoke head are holding the cups.
cycling,a great individual sport,were you can't reach anything,whithout group effort.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6217
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I've read some things that are just plain wrong. I do remember a post some time ago by Fdegrove saying the bearings were "glued" in. That was news to me so I'm glad he reversed that statement. Also, the wheel bearings are cup and cone. The bearings themselves are in a "holder" but it is only just that, a place holder to keep the bearings nicely separated and spaced from each other. I can't remember when Campy changed the design on the hubs but you can tell if you need to remove the spokes or not in order to remove the cups by looking at the heads. You'll be able to see if they would get in the way of cup removal or not. It does make it easy if you have the right tools and I wouldn't do it without them. Yes I have the right tools. Rarely use them however as the ceramic upgrade is very expensive and probably not worth the effort to most people. Campy bearings be they ceramic or not are excellent.

It is Campagnolo's bottom bracket ceramic bearings that are the cartridge type. I think I might have read an implication somewhere that these are cup and cone type, or that all campy ceramic bearings are "cup and cone". Hmmm. Not so.
Bottom bracket are cartridge. Wheels use cup and cone.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5858
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Some while ago there was a guy on the forum stating the races on his Hyperons were shot and how to replace them. He posted a pic of the side of the hub shell with everything else removed. If you looked at it closely there seemed be residues of glue.

Later on he sent me a PM which also included a pic with all spokes removed (the FW). As it turned out what we initially thought to be glue was actually residue of "resin" that some greases leave as they dry up.
He managed to replace the races with some garage tools.... :shock:

BTW, I've been running Bora Ultras on oil for more than five years now. They're still like new. I do maintain them regularly and properly.
Performancewise I doubt there would be any measurable difference between my set up and CULT bearings.

@Calnago: The cup and cone bearings of the wheels that use oversize axles are dimensionally identical to the industrial cartridge bearing type 6903 (17 x 30 x 7 mm). That's how I was able to use the CULT wheel bearing kit on a Miche Ti BB axle since that one uses the common 6903 as well.
Not all Campa wheels use cup and cone bearings though, just the ones that come with the OS axles, the others use run of the mill cartridge bearings.
All ISO BB use cartridge bearings, one 6903 on the NDS and two 6803s mounted as one on the DS for Record and Chorus for sure. The other ones I do not know.

Hope that clarifies it a bit. ;)
Last edited by fdegrove on Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6217
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Same here, I have a couple sets of Boras and several Cult ultra torque cranks. All bearings in both wheels and bottom brackets seem like new. I maintains them. Blow them out with compressed air. Couple drops of oil and good to go. I think they are fantastic.

The steel bearings in the ultra torque cranks do need regular maintenance which usually means replacing the bearings. The seals on ultra torque cranks are not like the seals in the older sealed bottom bracket cartridges. Water does get in and they need servicing. That's just the way it is.

@Fdegrove, what campy wheels have cartridge bearings? Not saying they don't, just that I've never worked on any. I've got old campy hubs from years and years ago, and have been using campy pre builts since they came out. Nucleons, Neutrons, older Eurus, newer Eurus, Boras, Fulcrum Racing Zeros. None of these wheels have had cartridge bearings so I'm a little curious which ones do? Thanks.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
eurperg
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Finland

by eurperg

Khamsin, Vento and Scirocco have cartridge bearings, also Fulcrum 7 and 5...

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5858
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,

Nucleons, Neutrons, older Eurus, newer Eurus, Boras, Fulcrum Racing Zeros.


See, that's the problem when you use only the nicest wheels. :mrgreen:

Euperg is spot on. :thumbup:

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6217
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I thought that might have been the reason for my ignorance. I really must get out more :)
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
jekyll man
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am
Location: Pack filler

by jekyll man

you can add later mirage and veloce to the hubs that had cartridge bearings too...
Official cafe stop tester

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post