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Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:14 am
by mentok
i weigh 90kg. i mainly race crits and i'm more of a sprinter than anything else. my CP curve is heavily weighted to the left - 5min power is ~500W and i can crank out a 1600W+ sprint when i need to. I also descend pretty hard so i would think i'm giving these wheels a more thorough workout than most.

i built my set as a replacment set of training wheels, though they will almost certainly see some time in some road races and crits in the coming months. my build is 24h 2x front and 28h 3x rear to BHS wide79g(?) front and BHS 211g rear. front is laced with sapim lasers and rear sapim race.

the rims were pretty straight out of the box. the build was simple and they built very straight with no hassles. the total build weight was about 1550g. I can't recall precisely what tensions i ended up with but the rear ds:nds ratios were respectable and there's minimal nds lateral deflection so i can run my rear brakes quite tight without scrubbing on out of the saddle climbs.

so far i have about 1000km on them.

the ride is good compared to the wheelset they replaced - chinese hubs, dt comp spokes, 2x 24F, 2x 28R, ~20mm deep kinlin rims @ ~450g and total weight = 1550g. these were my solid and dependable training wheels that i had for about 3 years.

the new wheels themselves are slightly stiffer, less compliant and plenty responsive through the rear (which could be due to the 3x rear) - when i've nailed the odd pothole it has really let me know about it and the rear is more spritely as you spin it up to speed. they're also more responsive through the front end (could just be the wider hub?). i don't notice any softness while climbing out of the saddle or sprinting. generally, they feel just a little bit firmer all round to me compared to a similar weight (possibly slightly lighter) but narrower rim they replaced.

the 23mm rims feel much nicer over rougher roads than the old wheels - i feel comfortable riding them at 80psi which provides a nice really ride even with crappy butyl tubes and gatorskins. i imagine they would feel even better with decent rubber on. this seems to more than compensate for the reduced vertical compliance through the rear end - the end result is a nicer ride over smaller bumps. there are a few dead roads in my area that i occasionally ride and i've stopped hating them since i got the new wheels. this probably leads to more comfort and less fatigue on longer rides.

the rounder tyre profile feels really good through the bends and i have managed to shave a few seconds off some of my local strava descents. not sure if this is a real quality of the wheel and tyre, or the new gear is just giving me more confidence, but either way, the times don't lie and the feeling is nice.

in terms of any aero effect, i don't know. if there's a difference, i don't know that it's discernable in the saddle - maybe if you crunch some numbers you might be able to find it, but i'm not seeing anything directly. perhaps if i swap backwards and forwards between new and old wheels i might be able to feel something, but i don't know. during the one ride i've done on them in windy conditions i did feel like i was copping the cross-winds a bit more than usual, but i never felt like i was getting smashed when i was riding directly into the wind. don't really know how to take that...

in terms of performance (particularly climbing), i haven't noticed any difference in my times up my local hills. considering the near-identical weights of the old and new wheelsets, i'm not surprised.

bottom line: the biggest thing is the comfort and ride provided by the ability to run lower pressures with a rounder tyre profile. if you're buying these as an aero set of wheels i don't know that you'll get what you want. these aren't streets ahead of the traditional ~20mm rims they replaced, but to me they are an improvement in virtually every way so i'm very impressed so far.

as a side note, BHS was quick and easy to deal with. he even noticed that i'd accidentally mis-matched the colours of hubs in my order and he asked me to confirm - saved me a lot of hassle.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:08 pm
by SWijland
For my Renovo wooden bike I recently got the wooden rims replaced by a pair of polished H Plus Son Archetype 23mm rims. The finished wheels are replacing a pair of DT Swiss R1900 wheels I was using during the time the wheels were rebuilt. On both wheels I was using Conti GP4000s 25mm tires.

First impressions: comfort, comfort, comfort! The increase in vibration dampening is simply ridiculous. I was under the impression that my wooden rims were the most comfortable rims by far, but I was wrong.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:08 pm
by Weenie

New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:44 pm
by olebole
SWijland: Sounds nice, the archetypes look beautiful!
Coulds you post some specs and weights from the final build?

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:49 pm
by SWijland
I will try and take some pictures and weigh in the wheels during this week.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:01 pm
by SWijland
As promised some pictures of the H Plus rims in real life. Unfortunately I have not been able to weigh the wheels yet.

Image

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Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:07 pm
by arbitrage
Has anyone tried running these tubeless? The BHS site suggests that the rim "works well with 25mm or tubeless tires."

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:02 am
by KLabs
SWijland wrote:Image

Hi SWijland, what are the benefits of interweaving the spokes? Is it like Tieing & Soldering?

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:21 am
by SWijland
@arbitrage: to be honest, there are no real advantages to using snowflake or twisted lacing. In theory the twisting of the spoke at the crossing should stiffen up the wheel, just like tying and soldering, but just like tying and soldering, in real life this is hardly noticeable. Why do it then? Because it looks sweeeet IMHO 8)

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:00 pm
by gourami7
Really think it looks awful !

Nice bike though

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:46 am
by Gregorio
Looks sweet??? IMO looks like some sort of a joke.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:34 am
by BobSantini
Gorgeous bike but those spokes look agricultural kitsch imo.
Those Son rims are beautiful.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:37 am
by 1415chris
....speaking of which, I built the set using these rims.
Final weight 1425g.

Pics:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1016755715 ... directlink"

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:50 pm
by gregalfa
I think Token C28A use these rim. My set is about 1500gram. I love it for training.
I may order Cx-Ray to save some weight from Pillar 1422 :D

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:36 am
by stella-azzurra
SWijland wrote:@arbitrage: to be honest, there are no real advantages to using snowflake or twisted lacing. In theory the twisting of the spoke at the crossing should stiffen up the wheel, just like tying and soldering, but just like tying and soldering, in real life this is hardly noticeable. Why do it then? Because it looks sweeeet IMHO 8)


Tying up or soldering does not stiffen up the wheel. Only the proper tension on the spokes, and the type of spoke used does.

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:36 am
by Weenie

Re: New 23mm wide aero rim available! $54

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:14 pm
by ricerocket
What sort of tension are you guys building to?