55-65mm deep aero wheels (rim brake) for 28mm rubber?

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thebikemanguy
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:54 am

by thebikemanguy

mrlobber wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:13 am
thebikemanguy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:22 am
Princeton Carbonworks make all their wheels for rim brakes as well as disc. The Dual 5550 (22mm internal) are a good looking option if you want a wide and deep rim brake wheel.
Absolutely, they are great wheels, except for the price. Even the "full bling" custom options I described above are 2x or more cheaper.
For sure. They're definitely much more expensive but I wanted to throw it out there as a high-end option, since most high-end wheels are disc-only now. FWIW I'm not sold on carbon spokes. They're stiffer but it isn't clear to me that that is actually a good thing.

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Hexsense
Posts: 2921
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

IMO. Wheels with carbon spokes should have less spokes than wheel with steel spokes.
Steel is dense. Sapim Cx-ray is really really thin.
Carbon spokes have a bit of aero disadvantage that it's much thicker. But it's also stiffer.

So, to equalize both aero and stiffness out. If I normally use 24 spokes Cx-ray. I'd look toward 21 carbon spokes (14 on one side and 7 on the another, triplet style).
You still get benefit of lighter weight at cost of complexity and durability though.

If it's 24 steel spokes vs 24 carbon spokes. I'd still choose 24 steel spokes, with hidden spoke nipples.

mrlobber
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

thebikemanguy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 pm
FWIW I'm not sold on carbon spokes. They're stiffer but it isn't clear to me that that is actually a good thing.
Yes, for sure I also wouldn't suggest them for the only wheelset one has to ride :D

But in general, there are indeed a ton of other options of 28mm wide / 21mm internal carbon rims around, including some super cheap China generic stuff (as cheap as I'd seriously question the reliability of such rims).
Bikes I know something of:
Vial Evo Ultra | SS Evo 1 & 2 | R5D | S5 | S5D | P5 | O2 V.A.M D | AR FRD | Addict SL | Plasma 3 | SL6 | Orca | Orca OMX D | Boone D | 596

romanmoser
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:04 pm
IMO. Wheels with carbon spokes should have less spokes than wheel with steel spokes.
Steel is dense. Sapim Cx-ray is really really thin.
Carbon spokes have a bit of aero disadvantage that it's much thicker. But it's also stiffer.

So, to equalize both aero and stiffness out. If I normally use 24 spokes Cx-ray. I'd look toward 21 carbon spokes (14 on one side and 7 on the another, triplet style).
You still get benefit of lighter weight at cost of complexity and durability though.

If it's 24 steel spokes vs 24 carbon spokes. I'd still choose 24 steel spokes, with hidden spoke nipples.

Absolutetly
That's why the winspacer hyper and others with carbon spokes from them, are 21 spokes front and rear for the disc brakes version.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

mrlobber wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:47 am
thebikemanguy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 pm
FWIW I'm not sold on carbon spokes. They're stiffer but it isn't clear to me that that is actually a good thing.
Yes, for sure I also wouldn't suggest them for the only wheelset one has to ride :D

But in general, there are indeed a ton of other options of 28mm wide / 21mm internal carbon rims around, including some super cheap China generic stuff (as cheap as I'd seriously question the reliability of such rims).
I look for wider outside width. Not 28mm rim width. That would seem fitting tires maximum 26mm. I guess i look for 30mm external. Black inc sixty perhaps, but they do cost alot.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:12 am
I look for wider outside width. Not 28mm rim width. That would seem fitting tires maximum 26mm. I guess i look for 30mm external. Black inc sixty perhaps, but they do cost alot.
To me, it looks that you might be out of luck really, which makes sense from manufacturer's perspective - the mid to high end rim brake market shrinks year by year, and there's no point reducing the market size themselves further by offering 30mm+ wide rims which are limited by caliper/fork/chainstay clearance on a lot of rim brake bikes.

Ascent offer their Polaris rims also in rim brake format, but they're 32+ mm fat, so even more extreme, and the price for EU customers isn't that friendly overall either.
Bikes I know something of:
Vial Evo Ultra | SS Evo 1 & 2 | R5D | S5 | S5D | P5 | O2 V.A.M D | AR FRD | Addict SL | Plasma 3 | SL6 | Orca | Orca OMX D | Boone D | 596

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AscentBikes
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by AscentBikes

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:12 am
mrlobber wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:47 am
thebikemanguy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 pm
FWIW I'm not sold on carbon spokes. They're stiffer but it isn't clear to me that that is actually a good thing.
Yes, for sure I also wouldn't suggest them for the only wheelset one has to ride :D

But in general, there are indeed a ton of other options of 28mm wide / 21mm internal carbon rims around, including some super cheap China generic stuff (as cheap as I'd seriously question the reliability of such rims).
I look for wider outside width. Not 28mm rim width. That would seem fitting tires maximum 26mm. I guess i look for 30mm external. Black inc sixty perhaps, but they do cost alot.
We do have the Polaris 69mm, but for rim brakes it's a little wide. If you have the Shimano R7000/R8000 STANDARD calipers, it is possible to use given:
1) You open the brakes as far as possible
2) You use thinner brake pads (like Swissstop Black Prince EVO)
3) You move the spherical washer at the brake shoe to the outside - not strictly necessary but good for additional 2-3mm clearance.
However we cannot guarantee if your frame/fork can mount something so wide.

Here is a picture of the Polaris on a rim brake setup with 28mm tires.

I hope this helps
QX
Founder
Ascent Bikes
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CustomMetal
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by CustomMetal

AscentBikes wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:32 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:12 am
mrlobber wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:47 am
thebikemanguy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 pm
FWIW I'm not sold on carbon spokes. They're stiffer but it isn't clear to me that that is actually a good thing.
Yes, for sure I also wouldn't suggest them for the only wheelset one has to ride :D

But in general, there are indeed a ton of other options of 28mm wide / 21mm internal carbon rims around, including some super cheap China generic stuff (as cheap as I'd seriously question the reliability of such rims).
I look for wider outside width. Not 28mm rim width. That would seem fitting tires maximum 26mm. I guess i look for 30mm external. Black inc sixty perhaps, but they do cost alot.
We do have the Polaris 69mm, but for rim brakes it's a little wide. If you have the Shimano R7000/R8000 STANDARD calipers, it is possible to use given:
1) You open the brakes as far as possible
2) You use thinner brake pads (like Swissstop Black Prince EVO)
3) You move the spherical washer at the brake shoe to the outside - not strictly necessary but good for additional 2-3mm clearance.
However we cannot guarantee if your frame/fork can mount something so wide.

Here is a picture of the Polaris on a rim brake setup with 28mm tires.

I hope this helps
QX
Founder
Ascent Bikes
What is the rim weight for the disc rims? Also how come you didn't do a different front and rear profile?
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AscentBikes
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by AscentBikes

CustomMetal wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:55 am
AscentBikes wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:32 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:12 am
mrlobber wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:47 am


Yes, for sure I also wouldn't suggest them for the only wheelset one has to ride :D

But in general, there are indeed a ton of other options of 28mm wide / 21mm internal carbon rims around, including some super cheap China generic stuff (as cheap as I'd seriously question the reliability of such rims).
I look for wider outside width. Not 28mm rim width. That would seem fitting tires maximum 26mm. I guess i look for 30mm external. Black inc sixty perhaps, but they do cost alot.
We do have the Polaris 69mm, but for rim brakes it's a little wide. If you have the Shimano R7000/R8000 STANDARD calipers, it is possible to use given:
1) You open the brakes as far as possible
2) You use thinner brake pads (like Swissstop Black Prince EVO)
3) You move the spherical washer at the brake shoe to the outside - not strictly necessary but good for additional 2-3mm clearance.
However we cannot guarantee if your frame/fork can mount something so wide.

Here is a picture of the Polaris on a rim brake setup with 28mm tires.

I hope this helps
QX
Founder
Ascent Bikes
What is the rim weight for the disc rims? Also how come you didn't do a different front and rear profile?
The disc rims are around 530-550g for the raw finish, and about 550-580g for the standard finish.
As for the rim profile, well, I didn't know that was a prerequisite for admission to the party :D

I optimized the rim profile for the front - comfort, steering stability, and graceful stall characteristics were what I prioritized for the front. My view is that the rider is an integral part of the system, so human factors are extremely important when considering performance. We wanted to give the rider confidence, so they could focus on the ride instead of fighting the bike.

Usually the rear is deeper for better speed, but the air there is so messed up by the frame and your two spinning legs (essentially hairy cylinders) that really, the differences are marginal. Some brands make the rear wider for improved comfort, but Polaris is so wide already that there's more than enough comfort to go around. You could go for a rear disc wheel, which some of my riders have done before (69mm front, disc rear) in a time trial, which is now viable because of the improved controllability that Polaris provides.

Hope the explanation helps!
QX
Founder
Ascent Bikes

2000m2
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:28 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

by 2000m2

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 pm
In these days of rim bake burial i still wonder, are there any deeper aero wheelsets designed for 28mm tires?
Seems as aero rim brake tech kind of stopped (talking OD of rim) around 23 tops 25mm tires.
I mostly look for options between 55-65mm deep.

All inputs are appreciated :-)
Caden may have what you're looking for:
https://carbonbikewheels.com.au/us
I run the 59mm wheels with 28mm tubulars and they fit the wheels very nicely.

rudye9mr
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

HED jet6+ might be a rim brake option.

Can't remember if optimized for 25mm or 28mm tires

romanmoser
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

nice brake surface the jet black stuff
pfiou and nice noise

but it's a low profil alu rim with a bonded carbon non structural cover over it
they'll get full of water if you ride in wet conditions
are easy to break ( i mean the flexible non structural covers )
plus internal nipples
really heavy to relaunch if you don't ride at constant speed and power

I don't see the point of them
except on tt rim builds where they are excellent

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