Tubeless newb

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loudtiger
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:37 am

by loudtiger

WIth 3 flats in the last month (the last one damaging my rim) I may have to call it quits on inner tubes. My go-to setup is Vittoria Open Corsa 25mm but the roads around me are littered with too much trash to continue using them, so I've switched to Rubino Pros. Since I need a new rear wheel anyway, I"m thinking of making the jump to tubeless. What do you recommend for a training tire that's flat resistant? I am thinking of picking up the WTO 45 Boras (https://www.bike24.com/p2322468.html?sku=1123073). These will work with tubeless tires, correct? Are there any tire + rim combos that work better than others? I do not have a tubeless pump that can inject a bunch of air at once. Open to any and all recommendations and learnings. I've been using tubeless Schwalbe tires on my MTB with great success, so i'm hoping road can be the same as well.

Thanks!

by Weenie


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10547
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

You don't specifically need a training tire...that's the beauty of tubeless. Racier tires like the GP5K S TR may puncture occasionally, but you won't flat. You probably won't even notice most punctures until you remove your old tires and notice random wires and thorns still in the casing.

That wheelset will be fine.

I would definitely get a tubeless booster pump if you don't own a compressor.

Conti GP5K S TRs in certain sizes are still somewhat difficult to mount. Schwalbe Pro Ones are easier to mount. Pirellis should be pretty easy to mount. There are techniques to make tire mounting easier, namely pushing both beads into the center channel, then push/pulling all the slack out of the tire from the top down.

Also stick to the following products:
Orange Seal
3M 8992 polyester masking tape / generically known as "green powder coat masking tape"
DynaPlug Micro Pill / DynaPlug Racer
Reserve Fillmore valves ... pricey, but seriously worth it over normal Presta valves. The small Orange Seal bottle's tubing/injector is perfect for injecting sealant into this style of valve, so keep an old bottle around.

choochoo46
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

some thoughts... while it can provide better comfort and less rolling resistance & sometimes better puncture sealing, it can be quite a lot of work. With inner tubes, as long as you don't pinch the tube while installing, you can be up & running in 10 min. With tubeless it could be 10 min or an hour. It really depends on the exact rim / tire combo, the age of the tire, the type of sealant you use, the fitment of the tubeless valve, etc.

And since switching to tubeless tires in the past two years I've gone from 4 flats/year to 1-2/year. BUT 50% of the time it doesn't seal with sealant and half of the remaining times it hasn't sealed with an added dynaplug. So 25% of the time I've had to mess with an inner tube or get a ride home.

And sealant dries out, so every 3-4 months you have to put more in. And at least once a year it's probably a good idea to clean the old sealant out, which is a tedious, timeconsuming job (depending on the sealant).

tips & tricks... if going with the GP5000 avoid the earlier TLR version and go with the S TR, which is easier to get on the rim. Add soapy water around the inside of the rim to help the tire seat. The bubbles will also help you identify leaks. Consider getting rims without outer spoke holes. While its much harder to repair a broken spoke you avoid having to use tubeless rim tape, which is often the cause of many tubeless fails.

If you don't have a tire blaster, a CO2 cartridge might work in a pinch. Once seated, replacde the CO2 with regular air, as air doesn't affect the sealant as much.

Good luck & let us know how you make out.

choochoo46
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

p.s. I like the Muc-off tubeless values (version 2) because they're not too expensive and come with three different gaskets to fit your rim's valve hole.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10547
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

My sealing success rate is more like... 85% and like 95% with DynaPlugs. And I run some high af pressures (>90psi sometimes.)

loudtiger
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:37 am

by loudtiger

Thanks, both, for sharing those tips.

TobinHatesYou: what is "3M 8992 polyester masking tape" for? I'm assuming this is to cover the spoke holes in the rim? Campy rims (even the standard fit, non 2-way fit ones) do not have spoke holes, so if this may be unnecessary for their wheels. I will try the Orange Seal sealant like you recommended. With my MTB tires, some tire and rim combinations I was able to seat with my regular pump. I'm guessing the tolerances for road will be much tighter and the tires might be more difficult to mount because of the higher pressure.

choochoo46: i am using the Muc-off v2 valves on the MTB and agreed they are working great. I assume valves aren't road or MTB specific; just thinking that some of the gaskets may be too wide for the narrow road rim.

What is a typical PSI to run? on 25mm tires I use 90psi with a tube. I'm guessing 70-80psi would be sufficient?

I saw a local ad for some Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires so I may start with those. Also, starbike seems to have a good deal on 2-way fit Fulcrum Racing Zeros, which could be a cheaper way to try this out.

choochoo46
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:52 am
My sealing success rate is more like... 85% and like 95% with DynaPlugs. And I run some high af pressures (>90psi sometimes.)
Because my sampling size is now even smaller, the variability of my results is probably much higher. I also should do a better job topping off the sealant every 3 months, so maybe that's a factor too. I use Muc-off but am testing the new Silca sealant on my 2nd bike.

My last two punctures were... 1) about 30 miles into a 50 mile ride, punctured and did not seal. Put a dynaplug into it and it held about 40psi but needed more two more CO2 refills on the rest of the ride home. 2) patched that puncture and remounted the tire. About 250 miles later the patch gave way about 10 miles into a 40 mile ride. Did not seal and didn't realize it was the same hole. Put two more dynaplugs in and it held enough to ride the 10 miles home but didn't feel confident enough to finish the ride.

LoudTiger: for tubeless psi check out the Silca tire pressure calculator: https://silca.cc/pages/sppc-form

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10547
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

choochoo46 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:54 am
I use Muc-off but am testing the new Silca sealant on my 2nd bike.

*sigh*

Also the only reason my success rate is as low at 85% is because I've occasionally used tires like Corsa Speeds and Pro One TTs.

loudtiger
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:37 am

by loudtiger

Update: Got my wheels and tires in - decided to go with Fulcrum Racing Zeros 2-way and a set of the new Vittoria NEXT tires in 700x26. Going to pretend I didn't just read about the negative reviews of that tire in the other thread. Also got some orange seal with the injector tube. Hoping to get everything set up before the weekend - wish me luck! Not expecting this to be as easy as MTB.

lukaszzsch
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:31 pm

by lukaszzsch

Hi guys,

What width of tape would you recommend for 21 mm internal width rims?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10547
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

lukaszzsch wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:38 pm
Hi guys,

What width of tape would you recommend for 21 mm internal width rims?

1” or 25-26mm tape.

CyclingGiraffe
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:04 pm

by CyclingGiraffe

loudtiger wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:51 pm
Update: Got my wheels and tires in - decided to go with Fulcrum Racing Zeros 2-way and a set of the new Vittoria NEXT tires in 700x26. Going to pretend I didn't just read about the negative reviews of that tire in the other thread. Also got some orange seal with the injector tube. Hoping to get everything set up before the weekend - wish me luck! Not expecting this to be as easy as MTB.
Good luck! It's really not as hard as some people make it out to be, especially with Campy/Fulcrum wheels that don't require rim tape.

I set up my Fulcrum Speed 40 DBs with the stock valves, Orange Seal, and Hutchinson Fusion 5 (Galactik 25mm front and Performance 28mm rear) earlier this year. Now, just shy of 2,500 miles later, I just replaced my rear tire with another of the same Hutchinsons (I bought several pairs when Excel had the OEM 2-fer deals). Both times no problems. Attach valve stems and remove cores; tire fairly easy to mount using channel method and maybe one tire lever for the last bit; locked the bead using an AirShot cannister; filled with Orange Seal through the valve using 30ML syringe; then replaced valve core, inflate to 70 psi rear and 80 psi front and good to go! I've not had any flats with this setup (knock on wood), whereas I used to maybe average one every 500-800 miles or so with tires/tubes (GP4000 then GP5000 and various tubes). Usually my flats were caused by small things -- radial wire often, sometimes thorns, etc. -- which I think the tubeless/sealant combo is great for resolving without you even knowing it happened.

warthog101
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

I've used Hutchinson, Stans and orange seal as sealant.
Conti GP5KTL, Hutchinson fusion 5 performance, Pirelli p zero race and Michelin power road tubeless tyres for road tubeless.
All have worked bar the Hutchinson tyres that blistered and delaminated in the heat.

Dumps on tubed from a great height imo.
Pulled out several bits of tyre wire from knuckle heads doing burnouts until their tyres self destruct. No other action needed. Kept riding them.

Gravel tubeless I've had to stop. Not road.
Not going back tubed anytime soon.
Unfortunately I don't seem to be the only one. TLR road tyres can be hard to source and expensive is the biggest negative ime.

loudtiger
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:37 am

by loudtiger

Thanks CyclingGiraffe. I got both tires mounted today - front one was a little harder and needed some soap for the beads to slide over to the edge. Managed to use up all of my Orange Seal after having it spray everywhere the first time. Surprised I was able to do it with my regular pump. First ride tomorrow!

warthog101: Found these on sale today. I've wanted to try them but the price was always on the high side. Thought I'd share the deal:
https://www.excelsports.com/panaracer-a ... ire-2-pack

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10547
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

loudtiger wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 1:46 am
Thanks CyclingGiraffe. I got both tires mounted today - front one was a little harder and needed some soap for the beads to slide over to the edge. Managed to use up all of my Orange Seal after having it spray everywhere the first time. Surprised I was able to do it with my regular pump. First ride tomorrow!

warthog101: Found these on sale today. I've wanted to try them but the price was always on the high side. Thought I'd share the deal:
https://www.excelsports.com/panaracer-a ... ire-2-pack
Seat the tire, then add sealant. Also always orient the valve at 8-9 o'clock or 3-4 o'clock when inflating, especially with a compressor or tubeless booster. High flow rate pointed directly at a pool of sealant can be potentially messy.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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