ENVE 3.4 SES with Formula Hub (Cervelo specs)

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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Roozbeh60
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm

by Roozbeh60

(Moved this post here from the Road Forum)

I'm new here, first post! Hi everyone.
I've been looking for my first set of Carbon wheels for my Cervelo R5 to upgrade from those crappy R500s.
I pulled the trigger on the Campy Bora one 35s which came out to around $2260 Canadian dollars after taxes and duty, etc.
The I got a call from a local bike shop (EnduroSport) in Toronto where Chris told me he has a brand new set of ENVE 3.4 SES with formula hubs speced to the Cervelos for $2400 before tax which makes it 2700$ after tax.

I've seen a few threads on the Enve Formula hubs and people have said to move on and not go for it, but is my case sort of special that I'm getting them for $2700 Canadian (equivalent to around $2000US)? I think even though the hubs are not as great, I'd never be able to afford a set of ENVEs for this price so I bought them and returned the Bora ones, but now I'm still questioning whether I made the right choice and should I let them go on used market before they start showing signs of wear?

by Weenie


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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

The problem with Formula hubs is not that the tech is very basic but that their manufacturing tolerances are probably the worst of the whole cycling industry. That means it's kind of a gamble. I had two OEM wheelsets using their hubs, one failed catastrophically in less than two months and fixing them only resulted in the same failure after another 3 weeks, the rear hub had to be replaced. The other set was on a mountain bike and lasted a few seasons (with much less milage though) and could be fixed once it crapped out.

I would never touch a Formula made hub again, so I would not have bought the wheels to begin with but now that you have them, I'd say either sell them while new or be prepared to have them relaced to some better hubs, but then it might end up costing more than a full priced set considering the price of decent hubs, probably new spokes and nipples, plus the builder's time.

You might struggle to get as much as you paid though, I don't consider 2700CAD that good a deal personally, I got a Enve 3.4 SES wheelset new from a shop for 2300CAD including tax not that long ago and they were built on DT Swiss 240 hubs. It's a shame as Campy Boras are better wheels than anything Enve IMO.

Roozbeh60
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm

by Roozbeh60

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:29 pm
The problem with Formula hubs is not that the tech is very basic but that their manufacturing tolerances are probably the worst of the whole cycling industry. That means it's kind of a gamble. I had two OEM wheelsets using their hubs, one failed catastrophically in less than two months and fixing them only resulted in the same failure after another 3 weeks, the rear hub had to be replaced. The other set was on a mountain bike and lasted a few seasons (with much less milage though) and could be fixed once it crapped out.

I would never touch a Formula made hub again, so I would not have bought the wheels to begin with but now that you have them, I'd say either sell them while new or be prepared to have them relaced to some better hubs, but then it might end up costing more than a full priced set considering the price of decent hubs, probably new spokes and nipples, plus the builder's time.

You might struggle to get as much as you paid though, I don't consider 2700CAD that good a deal personally, I got a Enve 3.4 SES wheelset new from a shop for 2300CAD including tax not that long ago and they were built on DT Swiss 240 hubs. It's a shame as Campy Boras are better wheels than anything Enve IMO.
Ouch sounds like I didn't get the amazing deal I thought I got. The issue is even if I were to say I'd rebuild it on a DT240S, the cost of rebuilding a wheel is over a thousand CAD so again, not much of a deal. I guess I'm going to see what I can get for them.

Ypuh
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Ypuh

Paying $2.000 for wheels is never a really good deal, is it? At least that's not a price point where I'd consider making any concessions.

I'd probably keep them and just ride them though. You'll quickly (<10.000km) find out if the hubs hold up and maybe replace the bearings for some quality ones when the time arises. If those bearings still don't hold up, it's time to source some 2nd hand DT 240s or something which can usually be found not too expensive (€150ish for the set). Calculate some good bearings (€50), spokes (€50?) and labour (€100) and consider it a 500-600 CAD future upgrade in 1-2 years. Part of the costs are mitigated by the required maintenace anyway then.
Cervelo S3 - 7.29kg

Roozbeh60
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm

by Roozbeh60

Ypuh wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:20 pm
Paying $2.000 for wheels is never a really good deal, is it? At least that's not a price point where I'd consider making any concessions.

I'd probably keep them and just ride them though. You'll quickly (<10.000km) find out if the hubs hold up and maybe replace the bearings for some quality ones when the time arises. If those bearings still don't hold up, it's time to source some 2nd hand DT 240s or something which can usually be found not too expensive (€150ish for the set). Calculate some good bearings (€50), spokes (€50?) and labour (€100) and consider it a 500-600 CAD future upgrade in 1-2 years. Part of the costs are mitigated by the required maintenace anyway then.
Funny you say that. I was talking to my cousin about buying bicycle wheels for $2700 and he was in shock for a while to know how much they cost. I guess we're used to these prices.

On a different note, I did some research the past few days and unfortunately the numbers in Toronto are higher than you mentioned. DT240s cost around 600, 450 for labour and 250 for spokes/nipples/washers (ENVE neess washers apparently??) Puts me at around 1300 for an upgrade based on numbers from 2 bike shops, so no deal there either.

Finally the good news! Since I had very low KM on the ENVE, EnduroSport took it back from me for a full refund and I ordered the Bora one 35s from chainreactionbicycles for 2269 after tax and duties. At least I know the hub is legit!

Thanks for the help guys

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Campy hubs are some of the best, some of the most durable in the buisness! :thumbup:

Ypuh
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Ypuh

Probably the better choice! They might be a fraction less exclusive, but quality-wise they're hard to beat. Serviceability is also a lot better, just make sure you check them for grease every once in a while (once a year~, a bit more if you ride through rain a lot).
Cervelo S3 - 7.29kg

Roozbeh60
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm

by Roozbeh60

Thanks for the inputs gents! Glad to know the choice was right!

Quasidodo
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:33 pm

by Quasidodo

Roozbeh60 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:06 pm
(Moved this post here from the Road Forum)

I'm new here, first post! Hi everyone.
I've been looking for my first set of Carbon wheels for my Cervelo R5 to upgrade from those crappy R500s.
I pulled the trigger on the Campy Bora one 35s which came out to around $2260 Canadian dollars after taxes and duty, etc.
The I got a call from a local bike shop (EnduroSport) in Toronto where Chris told me he has a brand new set of ENVE 3.4 SES with formula hubs speced to the Cervelos for $2400 before tax which makes it 2700$ after tax.

I've seen a few threads on the Enve Formula hubs and people have said to move on and not go for it, but is my case sort of special that I'm getting them for $2700 Canadian (equivalent to around $2000US)? I think even though the hubs are not as great, I'd never be able to afford a set of ENVEs for this price so I bought them and returned the Bora ones, but now I'm still questioning whether I made the right choice and should I let them go on used market before they start showing signs of wear?


I know it's been a while but my interest is total. The Boras are fabulous wheels. The original one's from 2004, tubs, with Veloflex Criteriums. I've not had the "ONEs" but I can't see them being much different. I bought an S5 with these Formula hubbed ENVE SES 3.4's. Total rubbish. They could not be used to sprint because of constant brake rub.

I bought the Boras in 2008, second hand and won my category in an E123 race 3 weeks later. For 2 weeks I was pulling the brakes in the bunch, they were so fast. The ENVEs were okay for couple of weeks and then became a nightmare. I've written the story just now for an ENVE Youtube channel and they'll probably delete it?

Here it is, anyway:"Well, with the Formula hub, you'd be better off binning it, as it's like riding with banana wheels, front and rear!! I got every penny back on my Cervelo S5, with Formula(for Cervelo) hubbed SES 3.4's. They wouldn't change the wheels, so I got the full refund, £6,599.99. The wheels developed brake rub after a week, so I let the brakes off and consequently, crashed into the rear pillar of a black cab, couldn't stop, shoulder only hit the pillar and while running the £6,599.99 mantra through my head, I managed to squeeze through a tiny gap and stay upright. I just couldn't afford to write it off.The bike never touched anything. It turns out that I have great control, as it was an irrevocable situation. ENVE never got involved in the conversation with the bike shop, as far as I know. Based on the price of the wheels, I demanded 2 pairs of Dura Ace C24 wheels, which would be £1300. It looks like it was cheaper for them to bin the bike, rather than satisfy a customer. They took the whole bike to check it out but never told me anything, other than that it was in a shoddy state, gave me the money back 2 weeks later. They sell you a 6.5 grand superbike and they don't put a chain catcher on it. That caused a scrape or two. The whole thing with the Formula hubs was to get the bike into a competitive price range, just forget about trying to perform on those wheels. I've rarely bought anything since, other than bottom brackets, chains, cassettes and general maintenance. I'm done with "super" bikes and "super" wheels. As I stood in the shop, finger hovering over the buy icon on my phone, the chief mechanic was saying to me, "you shouldn't have a problem with those wheels"!! The actual cocpit, sizing, Dura Ace, everything, was super, sprinting was fantastic, until the wheels went a bit sideways 2 weeks in. After that, accelerating was almost impossible. It was largely psychological, when you eventually got it over 25 mph, it would take off, but gradually up till then.I could never jump onto another wheel, was impossible, slow build up only. I've got power and the wheels couldn't handle it at all, after the first few weeks. You still see the Formula hubbed wheels on ebay and I know why."


So the only reason they exist is to get the top range Cervelos of 2017-18 into a competitive price bracket, with Dura Ace mechanical. Then they dropped the price as low as £3899, to get rid of them.I watched the whole thing pan out over 12 months and I was raging. I should have chased my money earlier and bought at the reduced price, then, skip the wheels with rubble I think because the word was out and nobody in the fast bike crowd would touch them. Vroomen was long gone and the corporate giant was running on greed. You now have the debacle of the delamination on the frame from the stop. So, yeah, it's all coming out in the wash. THe S5 17-18 frame was super, cockpit everything. The only bike I've ever stood up on and sprinted like I was made for it, perfect fit!! Wheels? Put them in a skip and cover with rubble. Don't sell them on ebay, that's a crime!!


From the website "Top of the line ENVE 3.4 SES Wheelset" and no mention of (for Cervelo), with crap "Continental GrandPrix 700 x 23mm". Other shops had the (for Cervelo) disclaimer. Anyway, it's a long time ago and funnily enough, I'd be making my last, interest free, payment about now. I miss that frame.

RDY
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

The Boras are in a completely different league to the ENVEs, even if they are cheaper. ENVE are poor.

Roozbeh60
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm

by Roozbeh60

Quasidodo wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:47 am
Roozbeh60 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:06 pm
(Moved this post here from the Road Forum)

I'm new here, first post! Hi everyone.
I've been looking for my first set of Carbon wheels for my Cervelo R5 to upgrade from those crappy R500s.
I pulled the trigger on the Campy Bora one 35s which came out to around $2260 Canadian dollars after taxes and duty, etc.
The I got a call from a local bike shop (EnduroSport) in Toronto where Chris told me he has a brand new set of ENVE 3.4 SES with formula hubs speced to the Cervelos for $2400 before tax which makes it 2700$ after tax.

I've seen a few threads on the Enve Formula hubs and people have said to move on and not go for it, but is my case sort of special that I'm getting them for $2700 Canadian (equivalent to around $2000US)? I think even though the hubs are not as great, I'd never be able to afford a set of ENVEs for this price so I bought them and returned the Bora ones, but now I'm still questioning whether I made the right choice and should I let them go on used market before they start showing signs of wear?


I know it's been a while but my interest is total. The Boras are fabulous wheels. The original one's from 2004, tubs, with Veloflex Criteriums. I've not had the "ONEs" but I can't see them being much different. I bought an S5 with these Formula hubbed ENVE SES 3.4's. Total rubbish. They could not be used to sprint because of constant brake rub.

I bought the Boras in 2008, second hand and won my category in an E123 race 3 weeks later. For 2 weeks I was pulling the brakes in the bunch, they were so fast. The ENVEs were okay for couple of weeks and then became a nightmare. I've written the story just now for an ENVE Youtube channel and they'll probably delete it?

Here it is, anyway:"Well, with the Formula hub, you'd be better off binning it, as it's like riding with banana wheels, front and rear!! I got every penny back on my Cervelo S5, with Formula(for Cervelo) hubbed SES 3.4's. They wouldn't change the wheels, so I got the full refund, £6,599.99. The wheels developed brake rub after a week, so I let the brakes off and consequently, crashed into the rear pillar of a black cab, couldn't stop, shoulder only hit the pillar and while running the £6,599.99 mantra through my head, I managed to squeeze through a tiny gap and stay upright. I just couldn't afford to write it off.The bike never touched anything. It turns out that I have great control, as it was an irrevocable situation. ENVE never got involved in the conversation with the bike shop, as far as I know. Based on the price of the wheels, I demanded 2 pairs of Dura Ace C24 wheels, which would be £1300. It looks like it was cheaper for them to bin the bike, rather than satisfy a customer. They took the whole bike to check it out but never told me anything, other than that it was in a shoddy state, gave me the money back 2 weeks later. They sell you a 6.5 grand superbike and they don't put a chain catcher on it. That caused a scrape or two. The whole thing with the Formula hubs was to get the bike into a competitive price range, just forget about trying to perform on those wheels. I've rarely bought anything since, other than bottom brackets, chains, cassettes and general maintenance. I'm done with "super" bikes and "super" wheels. As I stood in the shop, finger hovering over the buy icon on my phone, the chief mechanic was saying to me, "you shouldn't have a problem with those wheels"!! The actual cocpit, sizing, Dura Ace, everything, was super, sprinting was fantastic, until the wheels went a bit sideways 2 weeks in. After that, accelerating was almost impossible. It was largely psychological, when you eventually got it over 25 mph, it would take off, but gradually up till then.I could never jump onto another wheel, was impossible, slow build up only. I've got power and the wheels couldn't handle it at all, after the first few weeks. You still see the Formula hubbed wheels on ebay and I know why."


So the only reason they exist is to get the top range Cervelos of 2017-18 into a competitive price bracket, with Dura Ace mechanical. Then they dropped the price as low as £3899, to get rid of them.I watched the whole thing pan out over 12 months and I was raging. I should have chased my money earlier and bought at the reduced price, then, skip the wheels with rubble I think because the word was out and nobody in the fast bike crowd would touch them. Vroomen was long gone and the corporate giant was running on greed. You now have the debacle of the delamination on the frame from the stop. So, yeah, it's all coming out in the wash. THe S5 17-18 frame was super, cockpit everything. The only bike I've ever stood up on and sprinted like I was made for it, perfect fit!! Wheels? Put them in a skip and cover with rubble. Don't sell them on ebay, that's a crime!!


From the website "Top of the line ENVE 3.4 SES Wheelset" and no mention of (for Cervelo), with crap "Continental GrandPrix 700 x 23mm". Other shops had the (for Cervelo) disclaimer. Anyway, it's a long time ago and funnily enough, I'd be making my last, interest free, payment about now. I miss that frame.
Awesome note! So I actually returned the Enve after a week and ended up getting the Bora one. Loved them! Amazing wheels and super light. Even the USB hub was fantastic. I'm now selling them since I'm switching to a disc brake bike and I know I'll miss them.

Funny enough that I'm switching to the new S5 and can't wait to get my hands on one. Super sexy bike.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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