Bora WTO

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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neeb
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by neeb

So, I already have two pairs of rim brake WTOs, the 33s and the 66s. Both are great. So much so that I'm considering getting the 45s too... Apart from anything else it would let me swap wheels between various bikes without needing to change or adjust brake pads. Also, they just tick all of the boxes - great braking, tubless compatible, very well made and aren't going to have problems with delamination or anything.

Wheels such as these are a considerable investment, however. Curious how people think that the 2nd hand value of rim brake WTOs will hold up over the next few years. It's a difficult call, as on the one hand rim brakes on mainstream bikes are on the way out, so there could be less demand. On the other hand, because there's likely to be little new investment in rim brake tech for a while (until the industry sees sense at least), state-of-the-art rim brake wheels such as these are likely to remain so for some time. Presumably Campagnolo will keep selling them as long as there's some demand, but they are unlikely to be superceded for years (if ever).

Considering my own potential investment, my thinking is as follows - either high-end rim brake wheels will shortly cease to be sold altogether (in which case I should buy up as many "last generation" ones as I can right now), or else they will continue to be sold as a niche option but without any significant updates in tech (in which case they should retain their value pretty well).

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MaxPower
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by MaxPower

Would say it depends. Really high end and high priced stuff will continue, as die hard old fashion people will keep around.

But will high priced stuff like envy, zipp or campag stay at the current market price second hand? I doubt it as the market will get smaller with disc's being what people are buying.

I would think stuff like farsports and that price range will continue to stay a viable good option as pricing is more in line with the people buying such products. Zipp/envy people are mostly the same people who want to be smart, abd disc is what is smart currently.

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neeb
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by neeb

They're clearly not going to stay at the current market price second hand (nothing ever does), the question is how much they will depreciate. Many high end wheels that were state of the art 5 years ago now sell for 1/10 of their original purchase price on ebay (because they are a little narrower, not tubeless compatible, braking isn't as good etc). Admitttedly this doesn't apply to quite the same extent with campag, but still..

If they are still being sold new (same as) they should keep their price pretty well. And because they probably won't be updated, they may have quite a long life in the product catalogue. If they cease being sold, they will doubtless depreciate, but my guess is that a lot of people will still be after them, simply because they can't be bought new and many will still be wanting rim brake wheels.

By "people who want to be smart" I assume you mean on-trend/fashionble? Nothing smart about the disc brake take-over in any other sense of the word!

usr
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

I was kind of hoping for the second-hand market to get flooded with rim brake carbon now that discisation is in full force, but it hasn't materialized yet. People seem to just n+1 it (just like me, never sold anything yet). And the WTO were released into the falling flank of rim anyways. Price will be completely unpredictable in a market with little supply and equally little demand. What can be predicted, with a high amount of confidence, is that prices for "last generation" rim like the WTO will be considerably higher than prices for their predecessors (though this depends a bit on long term properties of those structured brake tracks, is there any experience circulating by now?).

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neeb
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by neeb

usr wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 6:01 pm
(though this depends a bit on long term properties of those structured brake tracks, is there any experience circulating by now?).
Yup, I was wondering about that too.. With thousands and thousands of miles do the brake tracks become smoother and shinier and so not work as effectively, or do they just keep wearing with that matt finish?

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

I tried searching with not much luck. Can someone explain if there is anything special for swapping the freehub body from campy to Shimano on a set of bora wto disc wheels?

I reviewed the campy documents which show full hub dissabley which seems too much. Thanks!
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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

rollinslow wrote:I tried searching with not much luck. Can someone explain if there is anything special for swapping the freehub body from campy to Shimano on a set of bora wto disc wheels?

I reviewed the campy documents which show full hub dissabley which seems too much. Thanks!
Buy freehub body, fit freehub body, burn in hell. Easy.


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Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

rollinslow wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 3:07 am
I tried searching with not much luck. Can someone explain if there is anything special for swapping the freehub body from campy to Shimano on a set of bora wto disc wheels?

I reviewed the campy documents which show full hub dissabley which seems too much. Thanks!
Remove cassette, stick a 5mm hex in the axle to hold it, undo the nut with a spanner *clockwise*, pull freehub gently while rotating it. Then burn in hell. That nut shouldn't be tightened like nuts, just reasonably so. Otherwise it can get stuck and hard to undo in which case you need to clamp the 5mm hex in a vise. Use a quality 5mm hex for all axle work, you don't want to ruin the aluminium...

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

jlok wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:07 pm
Cycomanic wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:53 pm
jlok wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:15 am
https://www.campagnolo.com/NL/en/Support/download

more hints here. try to refer to those technical manuals for bora one db.
The problem is that I just encountered the instructions for the Bora ultras with discs are different to what you have to do for WTOs (don't use the WHDB-0001 tool) and there is no info on campa's website for WTOs. So I'm a bit reluctant to try things if there are similar subleties as alluded to upthread. Maybe I just write to campa directly.
As I wrote in previous 2 post, use a spanner to hold the preload lock ring (make sure the ring is tightended) and the axle will be fixed. Then you may use another spanner to loosen up the free hub lockring. I found this in a technical manual (Page 4 of this manual) and I used this technique to swap Shimano to XDR freehub on WTO 45 DB.
I was looking at those pictures on page 4 more closely and the lock ring nut on the Zonda disc has flat surfaces for the spanner to grip. On my Bora WTO discs the lock ring is round. I'm a bit nervous about damaging the lock ring doing this method. Any other info about success here?

Thanks to other for the comments so far. The thru axle disc wheelset has a completely smooth 12mm bore.
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Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Sry i didnt read carefully enough and went for the rim way.

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

Task complete. There really isn't an updated online manual on the Bora WTO discs. You essentially use the Zonda disc method like others pointed out but to provide more specifics....

On the lock ring (non drive side) you need a 20mm spanner and use a towel or cloth for some padding. This is because on the Boras, the ring has no grooves for a wrench but instead your spanner will rest against the bolt on the lock ring.

On the drive side, you need a 17mm spanner (not 20mm as per the Zonda manual). The torque spec is about 15nm but form the factory I figure it was probably at 5-10nm since you don't really need it super tight. This lower torque didn't result in any change to the lock ring nut.

That's it.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
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FrancoisD42
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:52 am

by FrancoisD42

Hi all,

I purchased recently some Bora WTO 45 disc to replace my DT Swiss ERC 1100 dicut. They are very similar on many points (weight, aero performance, internal width, depth and ceramic bearings) but I could not resist to this glossy finish (so much I broke the rule and mixed shimano group with campy wheels :mrgreen: )! And I wasn't disappointed, they are stunning!

I put some 25mm veloflex corsa evo clincher on it with latex tube, and it was okay-ish, a bit tight at the end but no need for levers. I also tried GP5000 clincher in 23mm and it was slightly more difficult but all by hand too.

I only did a one hour ride with it, and I think they are very close to my DT Swiss. Maybe a little bit more dynamic out of the saddle, a bit less confortable on bumps but similar for road buzz, but I think this come mainly from the tire difference (I was on 28mm GP5000TL with the DT). They felt a bit more draggy in the wind (or maybe the legs were simply bad) but sligthly less sensitive to crosswind. Overall I am happy, but I will have a better feeling after some longer rides.

One strange thing though, when I did the freehub sound check at home, it sounded a bit less noisy than the DTSwiss, but you could definitely hear it. On the road, I simply can't hear it at all! Is it the same for you?
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neeb
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

FrancoisD42 wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 6:41 pm
One strange thing though, when I did the freehub sound check at home, it sounded a bit less noisy than the DTSwiss, but you could definitely hear it. On the road, I simply can't hear it at all! Is it the same for you?
It'll get noisier with use.. When new and packed with grease the campy freehubs are almost silent, but with use the become really quite noisy eventually.

Master-Ti
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 5:54 pm

by Master-Ti

I have a new pair of Campag Bora WTO 45's, and am having problems seating the tires. Being a long-time tubular rider and this being my first tubeless installation, I am looking for suggestions.

I have no problems mounting the pair of Vittoria Corsa tubeless-ready tires, 28mm rear and 25mm front. However when I inflate, the air leaks out under the tire bead without the tire beads snapping onto the rim bed. I've been using Orange Seal sealant, but don't have an air compressor. I've tried inflating with my trusty old Silca floor pump, a Craftsman electric inflator, as well as CO2 canisters, and the same thing happens, air leaks under the tire bead.

I tried the trick of using an inner-tube first to snap the tire beads in place, but after I take the inner tube out and put the tubeless valve back in, the same problem happens.

What do you suggest I try next? I would appreciate any suggestions before going out and getting a proper air compressor.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

When removing the inner tube, did you break both of the two tire beads or just one? You should be able to remove the inner tube by breaking just ONE tire bead, leaving the second bead still attched to the rim. Try this method and see if it works. If this doesn't work then you could try wetting the tire beads and the rim with soapy water before inflating.

by Weenie


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