Winspace Hyper

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
RDY
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

You're simply not going to get a lot of tyres seated without levers. Try it with Challenge's open tubulars. Impossible.

alcatraz
Posts: 3878
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The worst thing you can do is mount the tire the wrong way, or pinch a tube mounting it. You can seriously injure yourself trying to get a new tire off on some combos.

by Weenie


Atoms
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 3:54 am

by Atoms

RDY wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:44 pm
Atoms wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:40 am
Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?



Neocat wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:03 am
Just got my Hyper 38 rims. Out of the box I noticed rusty-coloured bleed speckled the carbon weaves, a lot more on the rear wheel. Up close it looks plain fugly to me. I'm surprised no one mentioned this before.3B5F60FB-265F-4B69-9EEF-83A1582AE327.jpeg0DCBC5C7-9065-40CA-AA3A-D12066F541A4.jpegB5B10EAA-A619-42D7-A4B2-7A737187D537.jpeg
Winspace dismisses this as their 'secret sauce' which makes the resins highly temperature resistant. I wonder if this only applies to rim wheels because the disc version would be spared of such requirement. Can someone confirm? 6F5A89F5-C25D-4121-B3F5-0E1836D30161.jpeg Also I can confirm the rear carbon spokes on the drive side touch each other, I can't slip a piece of paper in between. I hope this won't creak down the road. While not going to win on looks, all else good so far.
I'd be very concerned about this. Never seen carbon wheels do this. Filament wound or ortherwise.

Either the resin was contaminated and is going bad, or didn't fully cure / wasn't properly baked and hasn't formed an impermeable shield to ingress of damp, oil, dirt or other contaminants. Or they got overheated when baked. Something certainly not right there.

I have a pair of FW wheels. They're completely naked (no clearcoat even) ... Oil or anything else just wipes straight off them with a bit of cleaner and a cloth - nothing permeates.
It appears there are a couple of things going on with the visual appearance given the photos - yellow-ish staining/hue within the resin where the appearance depends on the photography skills of the phone holder, and for some (me included) brown/black spots within/ between the resin pattern and around the spokes which appears in every photo, barring the dead of night.

As above, to some this may not matter, and having a debate about physical appearance may lead to a fairly circular debate (I don't mind/I went up a hill and they were ok/ company say it's normal, as intended). But people should probably be aware that this is what they may get. I suspect the acid test is whether you would buy them from a shop like that? 1100 usd is a good price for a carbon wheel set, but it's still a lot of money.

More importantly, this still suggests process instability in manufacturing to me - will be glad to hear what the company say about this/whether it impacts wheel strength, or views of others with knowledge of these things?

dacian
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am
Contact:

by dacian

HenryH wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:56 pm
I should be careful saying anything as I willl soon try to fit some 5000 TL on my Hypers´, but I have no intention of using levers. I might need some help with some heat though - either from the sun, hairdrier or whatever. More worried if I have to deal with a puncture in the middle of nowhere on a cold day.

As for that crack I think it is hard, if not impossible, to say much about what happened. I got some plastic levers that are not very wide. Get them slightly tilted to one side and I am sure they could dig into quite a few rims if you are not careful (or if you are just unlucky).

It would have been interesting to see, if only I had enough money to waste on such a project, if one was able to replicate those markings with a lever. Might be worth testing on that rim if that ends up being unusable? Might even strengthen your case towards Winspace if you are not able to replicate it on other parts of the rime - basically proving that the rim had a weak spot it probably shouldn´t have had.
It's just my educated, let's say technical guess, based on the other at least 5 carbon wheelsets I rode so far and other wheels I tested or seen, all of them have different structure in the rim base, regardless if it's a rim brake or disc, instead Hyper is using this allaround carbon fillament wraping over the rim edge and base and this may have some material homogeneity advantages, also very cool looks, but I doubt it is also a good design choice whereareas the rim has to withstand other demands.

HenryH
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

dacian wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:50 am
HenryH wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:56 pm
I should be careful saying anything as I willl soon try to fit some 5000 TL on my Hypers´, but I have no intention of using levers. I might need some help with some heat though - either from the sun, hairdrier or whatever. More worried if I have to deal with a puncture in the middle of nowhere on a cold day.

As for that crack I think it is hard, if not impossible, to say much about what happened. I got some plastic levers that are not very wide. Get them slightly tilted to one side and I am sure they could dig into quite a few rims if you are not careful (or if you are just unlucky).

It would have been interesting to see, if only I had enough money to waste on such a project, if one was able to replicate those markings with a lever. Might be worth testing on that rim if that ends up being unusable? Might even strengthen your case towards Winspace if you are not able to replicate it on other parts of the rime - basically proving that the rim had a weak spot it probably shouldn´t have had.
It's just my educated, let's say technical guess, based on the other at least 5 carbon wheelsets I rode so far and other wheels I tested or seen, all of them have different structure in the rim base, regardless if it's a rim brake or disc, instead Hyper is using this allaround carbon fillament wraping over the rim edge and base and this may have some material homogeneity advantages, also very cool looks, but I doubt it is also a good design choice whereareas the rim has to withstand other demands.
OK. I can't say you are wrong, but personally I would have expected people like Hambini and Peak Torque to have picked up on it if there was clear structural issues with the design. Not saying them not having done so proves they are sound, but others not doing it isn't enough for me to think it is wrong (ref Tesla).

Neither do I believe it shows that there is something wrong with the manufacturing or that it makes them "unsafe" as implied by others. Might as well argue the opposite that they are willing to sacrifice looks for a better functioning wheel. I wouldn't know.

And that brings me over to where I believe Winspace have failed. If this is something that makes the wheel better why not be open about it? And as earlier asked - is this a new thing? If this is a "feature" of the wheels why haven't we seen it before to the same extent? Or have we, but people haven't cared? Would be interesting to hear from "old" customers if they have the same spots on their wheels. If this is a new thing than Winspace got something to explain - and them not being open about it isn't looking good.

dacian
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am
Contact:

by dacian

My overall impressions after almost 1000km, is that they are resilient and reliable, a very good looking set of wheels. They are fast and accelerates very quick especially between 35-50kmh, above 50kmh, however seems like they begin to choke, I compare them to Prime 50mm Black Edition and Campagnolo Bora One 35 (my latest wheels). Consequently, I did not beat any PR on descents or on the very fast segments and that's something I did not expect, since my Bora's are on 35mm profile. I presume the spoking design is the cause: too many spokes and too wide (4mm). You might argue that this is increasing the wheel rigidity and responsiveness, that's disputable, since I did not noticed higher rigidity overall. I do however, sensed a swifter response on seated sprints or when you force push on climbs. No higher rigidity when you tilt the bike like in a standard sprint. Braking is very good, I would say above Bora and other sets I had, similar to Prime Black edition. No vibrations no squiking noises, effective and silent. Riding in wind is mixed sensations: lateral wind gusts affects them in a greater extent than any othe wheels I had, you don't necesarelly feel it slows you down, but it de-stabilizez you almost brutally especially at the first rides, you have to ride them a while until you know how to manage them. On frontal or smaller yaw's constant wind speed, they are performing well, I would say a bit better than my previous deep wheels. I do consider them good wheels, not hyped over them, they are somehow innovative, I like that. Regarding the price, you should know that at this range you can already buy slightly used big brands carbon wheels, that perform at least at the same level. It's your choice, but the battle is there: a new wheelset over a used one
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Neocat
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:02 am

by Neocat

Atoms wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 6:37 am
RDY wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:44 pm
Atoms wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:40 am
Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?



Neocat wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:03 am
Just got my Hyper 38 rims. Out of the box I noticed rusty-coloured bleed speckled the carbon weaves, a lot more on the rear wheel. Up close it looks plain fugly to me. I'm surprised no one mentioned this before.3B5F60FB-265F-4B69-9EEF-83A1582AE327.jpeg0DCBC5C7-9065-40CA-AA3A-D12066F541A4.jpegB5B10EAA-A619-42D7-A4B2-7A737187D537.jpeg
Winspace dismisses this as their 'secret sauce' which makes the resins highly temperature resistant. I wonder if this only applies to rim wheels because the disc version would be spared of such requirement. Can someone confirm? 6F5A89F5-C25D-4121-B3F5-0E1836D30161.jpeg Also I can confirm the rear carbon spokes on the drive side touch each other, I can't slip a piece of paper in between. I hope this won't creak down the road. While not going to win on looks, all else good so far.
I'd be very concerned about this. Never seen carbon wheels do this. Filament wound or ortherwise.

Either the resin was contaminated and is going bad, or didn't fully cure / wasn't properly baked and hasn't formed an impermeable shield to ingress of damp, oil, dirt or other contaminants. Or they got overheated when baked. Something certainly not right there.

I have a pair of FW wheels. They're completely naked (no clearcoat even) ... Oil or anything else just wipes straight off them with a bit of cleaner and a cloth - nothing permeates.
It appears there are a couple of things going on with the visual appearance given the photos - yellow-ish staining/hue within the resin where the appearance depends on the photography skills of the phone holder, and for some (me included) brown/black spots within/ between the resin pattern and around the spokes which appears in every photo, barring the dead of night.

As above, to some this may not matter, and having a debate about physical appearance may lead to a fairly circular debate (I don't mind/I went up a hill and they were ok/ company say it's normal, as intended). But people should probably be aware that this is what they may get. I suspect the acid test is whether you would buy them from a shop like that? 1100 usd is a good price for a carbon wheel set, but it's still a lot of money.

More importantly, this still suggests process instability in manufacturing to me - will be glad to hear what the company say about this/whether it impacts wheel strength, or views of others with knowledge of these things?
Off the shelf, if given choice I would insist on the best looking set the shop could offer or I would choose something else altogether if something is not up to par. I spend as much time gawking at my ride as riding it I think, more so during lockdown.

HenryH
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

I hate unboxing videos, but this has got me curious. I have just watched a handful of these being unboxed and not a single one of them mention these kind of "brown stains". You would think that would come up if they had "stains" like seen from the wheels in this thread?

dacian
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am
Contact:

by dacian

HenryH wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:05 am
dacian wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:50 am
HenryH wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:56 pm
I should be careful saying anything as I willl soon try to fit some 5000 TL on my Hypers´, but I have no intention of using levers. I might need some help with some heat though - either from the sun, hairdrier or whatever. More worried if I have to deal with a puncture in the middle of nowhere on a cold day.

As for that crack I think it is hard, if not impossible, to say much about what happened. I got some plastic levers that are not very wide. Get them slightly tilted to one side and I am sure they could dig into quite a few rims if you are not careful (or if you are just unlucky).

It would have been interesting to see, if only I had enough money to waste on such a project, if one was able to replicate those markings with a lever. Might be worth testing on that rim if that ends up being unusable? Might even strengthen your case towards Winspace if you are not able to replicate it on other parts of the rime - basically proving that the rim had a weak spot it probably shouldn´t have had.
It's just my educated, let's say technical guess, based on the other at least 5 carbon wheelsets I rode so far and other wheels I tested or seen, all of them have different structure in the rim base, regardless if it's a rim brake or disc, instead Hyper is using this allaround carbon fillament wraping over the rim edge and base and this may have some material homogeneity advantages, also very cool looks, but I doubt it is also a good design choice whereareas the rim has to withstand other demands.
OK. I can't say you are wrong, but personally I would have expected people like Hambini and Peak Torque to have picked up on it if there was clear structural issues with the design. Not saying them not having done so proves they are sound, but others not doing it isn't enough for me to think it is wrong (ref Tesla).

Neither do I believe it shows that there is something wrong with the manufacturing or that it makes them "unsafe" as implied by others. Might as well argue the opposite that they are willing to sacrifice looks for a better functioning wheel. I wouldn't know.

And that brings me over to where I believe Winspace have failed. If this is something that makes the wheel better why not be open about it? And as earlier asked - is this a new thing? If this is a "feature" of the wheels why haven't we seen it before to the same extent? Or have we, but people haven't cared? Would be interesting to hear from "old" customers if they have the same spots on their wheels. If this is a new thing than Winspace got something to explain - and them not being open about it isn't looking good.
They do pride themself with this filament layout, they call it "buterfly", but you are right, they don't explain the details about the area of the rim wich it supposed to be the inner structure of the rim and the area where the most of the stress demands are concentrated, stiffness, tires on/off mounting, road chips or pebbles impact, potholes, etc. From what wee see in the damaged rims photos seems like the material is has the same structure as the cover aero part of the rim. More, this "buterfly" design it's not theire patent, most likely they outsource the rim production. Possible that a third party manufacturer (carbon rim manufacturer) proposed them this design, maybe they tried to adapt it/ improve it. You can buy the same carbon filament layout rims, from aliexpress, some of them have a different approach on at least, the braking surface.
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dacian
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am
Contact:

by dacian

HenryH wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:30 am
I hate unboxing videos, but this has got me curious. I have just watched a handful of these being unboxed and not a single one of them mention these kind of "brown stains". You would think that would come up if they had "stains" like seen from the wheels in this thread?

I did not seen them when unboxing, only after I took them out on the first ride, after you spot them once, you can not ignore them, I know it's a kind of self induced image

jzinckgra
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm
Location: Maine, USA

by jzinckgra

RDY wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:48 pm
dacian wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:28 am
jzinckgra wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 1:52 pm
Pretty disappointed. Not sure I got a defective wheel but when installing my clincher tire on rear wheel and using plastic tire lever, I heard an odd noise, like crunching. I pulled the lever out and noticed the carbon fiber delaminated where the lever was. The tires I was putting on were a bit difficult, but not more than others I've dealt with. The area is small but wondering if it will spread to the brake track area.



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


ImageImageImage
You did nothing wrong, the exact issue It happened to me at the rear wheel too, although in a smaller extent. My wheels were equipped by my local shop, a high class proffessional, former pro racer. He really does know how to deal carbon rims. I also had 4 sets of carbon wheels so far, different brands, I personally changed tires several times, using silicone-plastic levers sometimes, but this NEVER happened to me before. It's a bit absurd to state that you cannot use levers on carbon wheels, as some folks claimed on the forum
These should be replaced. Dangerous to ride like that, and there's absolutely no way plastic levers should damage a carbon rim.
I heard back from Winspace. They will meet this week to discuss. Personally, I don't see that there is much to talk about. A new replacement should be shipped asap. Happy to send the defective one back. I've been waiting months to finally ride my weight weenie parlee (13.1lbs) and have a hill climb ride coming up end of the month. Will likely have to wait another 2-3 wks to get the replacement, assuming they replace it.

Gwcman
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:15 pm

by Gwcman

Mcdeez wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:31 pm
Gwcman wrote:
Mcdeez wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 3:26 pm
Gwcman wrote:
As of yesterday (saturday May 1) I have put 744kms on my wheels, they feel great and I've had a few people ask about them, no complaints.
I think I just started experiencing the same clicking as Mcdeez, I've only rode them in clean dry weather so far. And no issues of creaks/squeaks that I can tell of spokes rubbing together.

I recall Hambini recently did a vid taking apart the rear hub to clean, MCdeez, did you just follow that process to re-grease the pawls?

Cheers,
Ive put electric tape between spokes to se if they are rubbing, and no they are not.

The procedure to remove the hub is like in hanbini video yes, just pull the cups for the thrus axel and you can pull the free hub by hand, thats it!
Thanks, kinda thought so, just thought I'd ask to be certain.

I just did a search around YouTube, this is exactly the sound I'm getting in this vid, is this what you were experiencing as well? -


Not sure exactly when I"ll get to taking it apart and lubing it as I don't have the necessary tools and in 3rd wave lockdown here in Toronto till May 20th. Hopefully that cures it and just a requires some cleaning now and again.

Cheers,
It was exactly this sound!
Just an update, as I mentioned my LBS did my a solid last week and added some grease to the pawls, as I mentioned he stated they looked fine inside - like he'd expect any hub to look. Tested them out this weekend over 119 miles (192kms) and they were quiet which was a nice relief. Now, is this going to become a regular maintenaince thing? No issues with spokes rubbing/creaking or anything so all is good there. So far I have a total of 581mi (936kms) on my wheels.

Cheers,

Mcdeez
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

HenryH wrote:I hate unboxing videos, but this has got me curious. I have just watched a handful of these being unboxed and not a single one of them mention these kind of "brown stains". You would think that would come up if they had "stains" like seen from the wheels in this thread?
I'm in love of the look of these wheelsImage

Neocat
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:02 am

by Neocat

Mcdeez wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:14 am
HenryH wrote:I hate unboxing videos, but this has got me curious. I have just watched a handful of these being unboxed and not a single one of them mention these kind of "brown stains". You would think that would come up if they had "stains" like seen from the wheels in this thread?
I'm in love of the look of these wheelsImage
Hey, the Hypers match your frame perfectly :thumbup:

Would be 100% perfect without the random stains though. Kind of stands out once you notice them.

by Weenie


milanv
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:03 am

by milanv

It looks like a bad production line or serie...

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