Velocite Millennium titanium frame

[vmajor]

What is Velocite?

It's new

Actually the brand is not launched yet. We are still getting all the products and inventory together.

Anyway, this is my Velocite Millennium titanium frame build. We designed the frame to be the absolute best epic riding frame on the planet. This means it is not a touring frame as it does not have clearance for mud guards, nor does it have cargo eyelets. What it does have is excellent geometry and superior mechanical performance - I have no idea how it rides yet, hence the test sample build.

This is to my knowledge the first titanium frame that will be EN tested, and that was designed to pass the stringent EN testing. EN testing is arguably not relevant to alloy frames since many highly performing and highly regarded titanium and aluminium frames currently in the market would have no hope of passing it, and yet they work just fine. Nevertheless, we built this frame to last a thousand years, so we may as well do it right

Here are some photos of the frame and the build in progress. More will be added over time.

I hope to finish the build next week when the forks arrive. I can then write something about how well it rides.

Velocite Millennium gallery

V.

[TheBugMan]

"we built this frame to last a thousand years"... Wow. Can you imagine inheriting a frame from your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather?!! Plus a wristwatch that has been up all their asses. Pulp Fiction reference (^_^)

[vmajor]

"we built this frame to last a thousand years"... Wow. Can you imagine inheriting a frame from your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather?!! Plus a wristwatch that has been up all their asses. Pulp Fiction reference (^_^)

ROFL Actually that is one of the reasons why we called it Millennium.

Barring accidents and abuse, the frame is designed so that titanium tubing used does not reach even the inherently high titanium fatigue failure threshold.

...ah the wristwatch, and I think that was the beginning of "Christopher Walken in every movie" era.

V.

[Alan Sherman]

Good luck with the new brand. i bought a Titanium bike (an Enigma Esprit) for longevity reasons. I think more and more people will get sick of the amount of stuf we buy and throw away so something that lasts is a good idea.

A couple of questions though - why an integrated headset and not a std press in design (suitable for Chris King etc.)? I preferred the press in style as they can be replaced, is a proven design over years and doesn't have any moving surfaces on the frame - see Chirs King website for a ful on explanation I suppose!

Secondly as it is designed to last forever I'm surprised you didn't go for the old style 531 racer config. i.e. enough clearance for mudguards for when the bike becomes relegated to winter bike / training use. Maybe not a common thing in your geography but certainly in northern europe our race bikes usually become training bikes after a few years and get mudguards fitted to allow dryer trainign in the winter months!

I think the bigger challenge is the lifespan of components - is that your next

[vmajor]

Hi Alan,

thank you for your questions - they actually help define our philosophy when it comes to frames.

You see, we also have 4 carbon fiber frames, and one aluminimum alloy frame in our (near) future range. We feel that all are perfectly suited for their purpose. We are not committed to the material, but to the engineering execution that brings us the closest to the desired performance ideal.

Integrated headset. We chose it as it is mechanically stronger and lighter. I have a longer history with mountain bikes than road bikes. External headsets were all the rage for a long while, but now the latest dirt jumping and freeriding frames (and BMX frames), the ones that are the most abused, come with the Campagnolo style internal headset. The head tube is slightly wider thus inherently increasing the stiffness of the front triangle. Since titanium is not a stiff metal, any extra stiffness that we can eke out of it is welcome. We were actually wanting to use an assymetric 1 1/8" to 1.5" head tube, but we would have had to invent and pay for new tooling for it. We may do this later.

This extra width also allows us to securely weld the oversize down tube to it. Internal bearings are easily replacable as they are only pressed in.

Since the head tube is in direct contact with a comparably larger diameter outside non-moving surface of the pressed-in sealed angular contact bearing, not with a comparably small diameter external headset cup (likewise just pressed-in), the chance of ovalization is reduced. Mind you, ovalisation of the head tube (death of the frame) is not common with road bikes. However over the intended lifetime of our frame, it may occur.

Some of what Chris King wrote in 2002 may have been true then.

Design choice. We actually intended this to be a true "space age" titanium frame. most current titanium designs try to emulate the steel designs and thinking. We have no heritage in steel frame design - I'd like to make one, but I have no idea where to start. The closest engineering analogue to the Velocite Millennium is a modern tube to tube (bonded tube) carbon fiber frame where, if done correctly, each tube is carefully shaped and profiled and then strongly bonded together to make a frame.

Component wear. That is really tough. I mean all the cockpit components that we will have are EN tested meaning that they should last a very long time. However drivetrain components would be very hard to engineer with extreme longevity in mind.

V.

[Bandanelli]

Give me 100 km's and it's dead

Seriusly, as Ti-lover, I'm looking forward to see some pictures.

[vmajor]

I finally built the test bike.

I took it for a short 20-30 km ride yesterday, and will hopefully get out shorty for another 30km.

The build is not complete since I am waiting for the Velocite FCS stem and Velocite ACROS bars to replace the current Pro-Lite items.

I will eventually also replace the currently unbranded Velocite NIOC32 wheels and the Velocite TLC seat post - they are also undergoing testing on this bike.

I kind of like this low key look - almost no decals, no paint. Looks very classy in my opinion. I hope that the branded items will not be detrimental to that low key, but clearly very special look.

I'll write more about how it rides once I have ridden it more. So far, I cannot tell much difference from a carbon frame.

Overall weight in this current state (minus the saddle bag and bottle cages is 7.9kg.

Here is one photo. More in the gallery here: Velocite Millennium gallery

More information in the blog here: Velocite Bikes blog - Millennium

[vmajor]

I'm a titanium fan so this thread peaked my interest. While I don't necessarily believe integrated headsets are the best choice they are not a bad choice either. How come such a long head tube? My Lynskey R320 is 280 grams lighter and by far the stiffest frame I have ever ridden. I looks like you need to cut some weight butting and shaping tubes if you really want to get into the weight weenie arena with titanium.

Its really a nice frame and I guess allot depends at what price point it will enter they market. It could be just so much more with some additional refinement. You did say its a prototype right!

Hey Juan,

thanks for your reply. I just came back from a short 30km ride up and down a hill to see how it handles climbing and descending. I'll write more about that soon.

I am really keen to hear your input since this is our design and yes, it is a test sample. Final production is awaiting my go-ahead so changes are indeed possible.

1. Head tube choice. Well, as detailed in the blog, purely engineering factors decided on the headset and the head tube design.

I have a standard titanium frame here that my friend is building into a bike - he did not know that we were developing the Millennium so he went ahead and bought this from another supplier. His frame uses the traditional external headset type. Using my digital calipers I measured the head tube at 38.11mm in diameter.

Our head tube, in contrast, is 42.5mm at its narrowest point and 44.8mm at the top and bottom where the top and down tube are welded on. Yes the head tube is hourglass shaped in fact - that is more visible in smaller size frames.

Since there are no miracles in engineering, the larger tube diameter feature also gives our head tube design an undeniable strength and stiffness advantage over a traditional external headset type head tube.

This is important since, as you rightly noted, the head tube in the size 58cm that I am testing is somewhat long. The Millennium is designed for epic riding, where riding just one century is a warm-up session. Thus we decided to go for a more sustainable body position. For short course and stage racing we have our carbon frames (Isoflow, Magnus, Helios)

Incidentally, the Millennium head tube dimensions are identical to the Cervelo RS.

2. Frame weight. All the main tubes are double butted and extensively profiled. There isn't a single round, uniform profile tube on the entire frame - except for the BB shell. All the tube profiles (except for the seat tube, but ours is also profiled - oval at the BB) appear to be larger than the Lynskey 330 (I cannot find the R320 photos).

If you compare the BB photo of the Lynskey R330 - photo number 9 here: Lynskey R330

...with an almost identical photo of the Velocite Millennium here: Velocite Millennium BB area

...and use the 68mm BB width as the common frame of reference, it is possible to see the tube profiles and chainstay spacing (Millennium's are as wide as possible for maximum stiffness). Millennium tubes look to be somewhat larger.

Lynskey R330 is definitively about 250g lighter than the Millennium that weighs 1.53kg for the size 58cm, but the Millennium is a little bit lighter, or the same weight, if allowing for variance, as the Van Nicholas Astraeus and Van Nicolas Zephyr.

3. Price point. Oh, that is actually the really good bit. Click here

4. Improvements. Please let me know what you think we can do to make it better, keeping in mind that this is a long distance, epic ride frame built to last a really, really, really long time.

I do not think that we can make it any lighter - the structural engineer in charge of making sure the frame can pass the EN testing refuses to budge, but we can consider anything else.

V.

[DMF]

I must say, I really like were you're going with this, philosphy-wise... It's true like Alan Sherman said... we are throwing to much stuff away these days, and I think people are starting to come to terms with this...

I mean, I've owned some three dozen frames in less than ten years now, and this winter I think I finally got it right when I bought a Ti-frame that I've promised not to sell as it could possibly outlast even myself...

And how cool wouldn't it be, 20 or 30 years down the line, to still own the same bike and it would still be in perfect condition!

That's what I really like about your ideas, it's eco-friendly, it's cool and it's just fundamentally right no matter how you look at it!!

Really wish you all the luck with this one, and btw, the satin finish of the frame looks gorgeous, don't change that!

[vmajor]

Thank you DMF,

The finish will not change. It is truly amazing up close and it turns out it is a 4 stage process. The colour is also not like other titanium frames. It is almost bronze with a slight luster and colour shift towards lighter bronze and under strong sunlight, a purple tinge. The "decals" are mirror polished in the "normal" titanium colour - ie. bare polished metal. Unfortunately I am a lousy photographer so I cannot take good enough photos to show this off properly.

When the final products are made everything is going to a studio for a full 360 degree treatment.


V.

[tochnics]

i think the colour is real pretty
are you a big guy or is that large headtube standard ?
seven bikes also have that large headtube and its the only thing holding me back buying a frame from them

[vmajor]

Thanks tochnics and yes, I am 190cm tall.

The head tube varies in each size. In size XL (58cm) - the frame that I am testing personally, the head tube length is 200mm.

Here is the geometry data:

[Powerful Pete]

Very interesting. Might I ask the stupid question regarding EN testing? What is it? Who does it?

[vmajor]

EN or CEN testing for bicycle components is a standard set of tests governed by the European Union (EN = Europe Norm) devised to ensure a consistent minimum level of quality and safety.

Here is a list of bicycle related standards:

EN 14764:2005 City and trekking bicycles - Safety requirements and test methods
EN 14766:2005 Mountain-bicycles - Safety requirements and test methods
EN 14781:2005 Racing bicycles - Safety requirements and test methods
EN 14765:2005+A1:2008 Bicycles for young children - Safety requirements and test methods

This testing originally mainly applied to carbon fiber products and was a way for Chinese based manufacturers in particular to improve their export product quality in a uniform, standards based way.

Our engineers question the relevance of EN standards to well designed alloy and titanium frames as they say that most of the current and past highly regarded and high performing alloy frames would have no hope of passing the EN tests.

We chose to standardise on EN for all our products, alloy or carbon. This also allows us to collect valuable mechanical performance data that will aid further product development.

The EN tests are performed in the factory. The EN certification is obtained by either sending the products to an independent lab for testing, or by having an independent observer present while tests are conducted on calibrated equipment. SGS is the most frequent choice in Asia.

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[Phill P]

I seem to be out voted here, but I think polished or brushed with the grey hubs would look better. The bronze colour seems dirty to me. Shiny is good!