Specialized Tarmac SL6 S-Works Ultralight Rim 49cm - 5.86kg with pedals
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In the last big post I said there were some minor changes that I'd cover later.
Here is a top level pic again with the changes circled of which the front brake was covered in my last big post: At the handlebars everything was already covered in this post
Chainring wise I went from 50/34 to 52/34 which isnt a natively supported Shimano config. Front shifting is worse on this deployment for this bike while I've seen better on other bikes. However, I haven't dialed it in as I plan to change the powermeter but more on that later.
RD cage to Dura-Ace to save ~25g which I covered previously for another build.
The last three changes are purely aesthetically focused as I don't like the random splashes of silver colored bolts. Fully a me problem that I also have with the front Dura-Ace brake.
Two of the changes are to the rear EE brake bolts. I really didnt like the mounting bolts so I changed them to a Ti black part which now blends in with the tire better. The brake shoe bolts were changed to S-Parts black bolts with agressive branding given that the Dura-Ace black bolts I tired were too long to work without changes. The other bolt change is more interesting but is again aesthetically focused. I picked up this tip in Sportastic's amazing Orbea Orca thread. I used a steel RD pulley bolt instead for durability from Shimano part number: Y3FW98090 but there are tons of options of your prefered material choice. All of this to make the FD mount bolt less pronounced in profile view. All of the bolt tuning saves weight to a minor degree but focusing on the totals is kind of missing the forest for the trees.
Here is a top level pic again with the changes circled of which the front brake was covered in my last big post: At the handlebars everything was already covered in this post
Chainring wise I went from 50/34 to 52/34 which isnt a natively supported Shimano config. Front shifting is worse on this deployment for this bike while I've seen better on other bikes. However, I haven't dialed it in as I plan to change the powermeter but more on that later.
RD cage to Dura-Ace to save ~25g which I covered previously for another build.
The last three changes are purely aesthetically focused as I don't like the random splashes of silver colored bolts. Fully a me problem that I also have with the front Dura-Ace brake.
Two of the changes are to the rear EE brake bolts. I really didnt like the mounting bolts so I changed them to a Ti black part which now blends in with the tire better. The brake shoe bolts were changed to S-Parts black bolts with agressive branding given that the Dura-Ace black bolts I tired were too long to work without changes. The other bolt change is more interesting but is again aesthetically focused. I picked up this tip in Sportastic's amazing Orbea Orca thread. I used a steel RD pulley bolt instead for durability from Shimano part number: Y3FW98090 but there are tons of options of your prefered material choice. All of this to make the FD mount bolt less pronounced in profile view. All of the bolt tuning saves weight to a minor degree but focusing on the totals is kind of missing the forest for the trees.
Last edited by OtterSpace on Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Another top level photo:
Vinyl wrapped RD outer metal cage plate for a cleaner look
Vinyl wrapped RD cable to hanger to hide it a bit
Vinyl wrapped rear bottle cage bolts to hide the silver mounting studs
Vinyl wrapped over Dura-Ace logo on 52t chainring for a cleaner look
Rewrapped the handlebars for a cleaner photo. Tessa tape is nice but shows wear quickly
Used an oil paint pen to temporarily cover silver FD rivets, crankset shift ramp pins, and Dura-Ace shifter brake pivots
Some more items left to do:
Switch to Sigeyi AXO & adjust BB drive side spacing should save around 66g
Finally cut the steerer, swap top cap & bolt to Carbon-Ti parts, and swap out stem to steerer bolts to Ti all of which I already have. Some weight savings but not much
Recable with AICAN Superlight Bungarus. No idea on weight savings but over 20g
In total probably around 100g of savings left to harvest
Extremely small changes from the last post:Vinyl wrapped RD outer metal cage plate for a cleaner look
Vinyl wrapped RD cable to hanger to hide it a bit
Vinyl wrapped rear bottle cage bolts to hide the silver mounting studs
Vinyl wrapped over Dura-Ace logo on 52t chainring for a cleaner look
Rewrapped the handlebars for a cleaner photo. Tessa tape is nice but shows wear quickly
Used an oil paint pen to temporarily cover silver FD rivets, crankset shift ramp pins, and Dura-Ace shifter brake pivots
Some more items left to do:
Switch to Sigeyi AXO & adjust BB drive side spacing should save around 66g
Finally cut the steerer, swap top cap & bolt to Carbon-Ti parts, and swap out stem to steerer bolts to Ti all of which I already have. Some weight savings but not much
Recable with AICAN Superlight Bungarus. No idea on weight savings but over 20g
In total probably around 100g of savings left to harvest
Last edited by OtterSpace on Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- justinfoxphotos
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Black chain and black cassette would be cool, also black teflon coated brake inner cables are awesome (I have them on my fixie and they work amazing).
If you ever figure out how to get the logos off the tyres please let me know! I've done a bit of research, some have had luck with nailpolish remover, but most have sanded the logos off (not sure I'm willing to try that though!).
If you ever figure out how to get the logos off the tyres please let me know! I've done a bit of research, some have had luck with nailpolish remover, but most have sanded the logos off (not sure I'm willing to try that though!).
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I have a black, rainbow, and gold chain rotation on another bike in my stable so I might try mocking that up.justinfoxphotos wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:11 pmBlack chain and black cassette would be cool, also black teflon coated brake inner cables are awesome (I have them on my fixie and they work amazing).
If you ever figure out how to get the logos off the tyres please let me know! I've done a bit of research, some have had luck with nailpolish remover, but most have sanded the logos off (not sure I'm willing to try that though!).
Cassette wise I think I'm stuck. I want this bike to continue to be function over form but look as good as it can with that caveat. Shimano cassettes and chainrings just can't be beat for a Shimano 12s bike and an alternative cassette would significantly degrade shifting performance. Also given the bike has some silver with the S-Works logo a tiny bit of silver isn't too bad to balance the bike a bit and avoid the total batman bike look.
The cables is a good recommendation. I just knee jerked to light ones I've used before. I'll look around and see what comes up given I'm less weight focused for this build. The front brake bolt and plate have been driving me nuts but the replacement black bolt I found was a bit too wide which can happen when searching odd one off bolts. This area will be hidden if I go with an aero cover but thats something I plan to deep dive some other time.
For tire logos I just leave them be currently but there are tires I avoid just becasue of logos (thinking of you GP5000 with random text color changes that place the GP5000 in a strange place). Oil paint will rub off and just looks odd Ive done that before and it just doesn't last or age well. You could try rit dye to soak into the printed labels but I've never attempted that. Avoid any abrasive removal too.
Also thanks for posting images of your rear EE brake in your other thread. Mine came mounted with the metal bridge and the carbon one. In looking deeper it seems like you don't need both like the previous owner of this bike mounted. With it removed the correct bolt length size is 10mm as well given this carbon bridge is around 3mm thick. I haven't found any manuals for this posted online so just going off other images I can find. As part of my collecting I also picked up a rear Dura-Ace 9100 skewer to see if I can notice any performance differences. Quite heavy though but its often referred to as the best QR skewer as they can easily add a lot of load.
Last edited by OtterSpace on Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
- justinfoxphotos
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FYI: You can get Shimano cassettes coated in cerakote. Check this link: https://ccache.cc/products/ccache-x-shi ... XZQqfGu7GgOtterSpace wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:32 amCassette wise I think I'm stuck. I want this bike to continue to be function over form but look as good as it can with that caveat. Shimano cassettes and chainrings just can't be beat for a Shimano 12s bike and an alternative cassette would significantly degrade shifting performance.
Also thanks for posting images of your rear EE brake in your other thread. Mine came mounted with the metal bridge and the carbon one.
And regarding the OEM carbon bridge for the rear brakes. I've not seen anyone not use it, but functionally it seems to be there to add torsional strength, and the adapter also features the same "bridge" so I really don't think it's necessary to use the carbon one anymore. I'll know for sure when my wheels arrive I suppose!
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More good info thanks.justinfoxphotos wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:03 amFYI: You can get Shimano cassettes coated in cerakote. Check this link: https://ccache.cc/products/ccache-x-shi ... XZQqfGu7Gg
And regarding the OEM carbon bridge for the rear brakes. I've not seen anyone not use it, but functionally it seems to be there to add torsional strength, and the adapter also features the same "bridge" so I really don't think it's necessary to use the carbon one anymore. I'll know for sure when my wheels arrive I suppose!
This is the second time I've run into cerakote mentioned for bike parts this year. I looked into it after I saw Sportastic coat his Ti pedal axle to help reduce wear. My mind hasnt flipped over to remembering these coatings are options now. I'll consider giving it a go. No way the coating holds on friction surfaces but that will be fine and a different color cassette will hide wax buildup well. Everytime I take a photo of this bike I use a nylon brush to remove it currently for better photos.
Regarding the carbon bridge I searched for stock photos of SL6 with EE rear Gen3 and the EE adapter after I saw your post. It looks like the stock ultralight builds in 52 and smaller only used the EE bridge and not the carbon one. I've seen photos of at least two from simple google searches but this link has the best pictures one of which I'll include below to make sure its archived here in case that site goes down.
- justinfoxphotos
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Well done on the research! That confirms it enough for me that the carbon bridge isn't necessary.OtterSpace wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:20 amRegarding the carbon bridge I searched for stock photos of SL6 with EE rear Gen3 and the EE adapter. It looks like the stock ultralight builds in 52 and smaller only used the EE bridge and not the carbon one.
Great idea regarding the bolt on the derailleur. Did you have to add a spacer? Because when I use the screw there's a limit and the derailleur is not fixed yet. Probably because there is this part without threadOtterSpace wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 5:04 amIn the last big post I said there were some minor changes that I'd cover later.
Here is a top level pic again with the changes circled of which the front brake was covered in my last big post:
circled.jpg
At the handlebars everything was already covered in this post
Chainring wise I went from 50/34 to 52/34 which isnt a natively supported Shimano config. Front shifting is worse on this deployment for this bike while I've seen better on other bikes. However, I haven't dialed it in as I plan to change the powermeter but more on that later.
RD cage to Dura-Ace to save ~25g which I covered previously for another build.
The last three changes are purely aesthetically focused as I don't like the random splashes of silver colored bolts. Fully a me problem that I also have with the front Dura-Ace brake.
Two of the changes are to the rear EE brake bolts. I really didnt like the mounting bolts so I changed them to a Ti black part which now blends in with the tire better. The brake shoe bolts were changed to S-Parts black bolts with agressive branding given that the Dura-Ace black bolts I tired were too long to work without changes.
bolt change.PNG
The other bolt change is more interesting but is again aesthetically focused. I picked up this tip in Sportastic's amazing Orbea Orca thread. I used a steel RD pulley bolt instead for durability from Shimano part number: Y3FW98090 but there are tons of options of your prefered material choice. All of this to make the FD mount bolt less pronounced in profile view.
fd bolt.PNG
All of the bolt tuning saves weight to a minor degree but focusing on the totals is kind of missing the forest for the trees.
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I used the default washer that comes with the FD to conform to the curve of the FD mount. However, after removing the bolt and replacing with the pulley bolt mine engaged well for this deployment with good thread engagement and fully bottomed out on the default washer.
Yes there isn't threading the whole length of the bolt but what maters is that the bolt is long enough to engage with the threading on the FD while maintaining threading on the bolt in that engagement portion. The thickness of the FD mount and the FD spacer washer all play into determining which bolt length is correct.
For anyone trying this I would recommend temporarily test fitting using one of your existing pulley cage bolts to see if that is the correct length. If it's too short you wont be able to bolt to the FD with enough engagement while if its too long you will either have excess exposed bolt shaft at the heat causing the assembly to wiggle or you could run out of bolt thread after fully threading through the FD. I think extralite sells three different lengths but I wanted to stick with steel. Given that my pulley bolt worked from an Ultegra cage I bought Shimano part number: Y3FW98090 but again you might need shorter or longer bolts.
Bolt tuning is often like this. It works best if you take a part that works off and measure it before buying parts as often times what worked for someone might not work for you. This process takes awhile unfortunately. This part is a bit more challenging to measure as the stock bolt sits flat on the washer while this pulley bolt is countersunk so sits deeper in the washer. For other bolt tuning small things regarding the head size can also have a bit impact depending on what you are replacing and how constrained the bolt is.
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Finally got the steerer cut after lowering it comfortably past what I would consider safe to ride long term and having more than enough rides in to know I was fine with that position or lower. If anything I heavily procrastinated on getting it cut, like usual. After the cut I moved all the bolts to Ti and then obsessively labled unusual and Ti bolts so that I know how to wrench on the bike at home and on the road without relying on manuals or memory given I have more than a few bikes that I swap between. Also got the berd wheels retensioned which you optimally should do after the first 6 months of riding to restore expected lateral stiffness after the spokes bed in their final state.
At a high level I like the bike but I wouldn't call it love. Its just works so well that it kind of doesn't stand out as having any particular vibe it imbues... very functional but kind of lacking soul or anything that particularly stands out good or bad. In a strange way I think that is a high compliment but I'm typically harsher on things than most. Its the kind of bike that allows you to just focus on the ride and not think about the bike, but as you can tell from the length of my posts I like thinking about bikes.
Braking and tire clearance is the clear limitation of this bike but for all but crazy desents on broken up roads its limitations dont stand out compared to my 180mm front rotor hydro braking 42WAM bike. Speaking of which that bike was out of commission for around 2 months during which I only used this bike. When I went back to a 360mm conventionally narrow bar from these super narrow bars that bike just felt so wide and wrong. Its crazy now comfortable and normal super narrow bars seem so quickly. At this point I'd say I prefer a super narrow flared bar for all the riding I do.
My Standard photo: More aligned to handlebars (man these super narrow flared bars make it hard to photograph): Labeling (plus you can see the handlebar flare in the last pic): My main Christmas gift is a nice 3d printer that I plan to try and make a front aero fairing with. No idea how well that will work out but looking forward to more tinking. Kind of sleeping on upgrading the front wheel to something more aero without adding much more weight but plan to do so eventually. For now I plan on playing with brake shoes to see if I can squeeze in 32mm WAM and then aero optimize a rim as close to that if it works. 30mm might just be the limit of this frame & fork though which is fine with me if it happens as this is just a 2nd bike for me. Also thinking about using the hole in the frame for tool storage but would need to make something that keeps stuff held in place well so it stays there when needed and doesnt rattle. However, that project is low priority & maybe never certainly lower hanging fruit to engage with first.
edit: Also back on the viewspeed skewers. I didn't notice a difference with the much heavier rear Dura-Ace skewer. In theory the Dura-Ace can add more clamping force, which I agree with, but I just didnt see any impact on the road from this higher clamping force to justify the higher weight and aero drag the Dura-Ace brings with it. Might matter more to a heavier rider
Also have a ztto cassette on order that I'll try out and you can see my preorder thoughs & expectations here
Maybe finally I can get around to fixing the darn chainline & migrate to the Sigeyi collecting dust too. Already this is the best shifting bike I've ever owned but I'm like 95% certain it can shift better still with chainline adjustments that would help the DFour but are required for the Sigeyi on this frame imho. Oh yeah I need to recable the bike to save a few more grams and fix the glaring safey issue on the front caliper... maybe some other day.
At a high level I like the bike but I wouldn't call it love. Its just works so well that it kind of doesn't stand out as having any particular vibe it imbues... very functional but kind of lacking soul or anything that particularly stands out good or bad. In a strange way I think that is a high compliment but I'm typically harsher on things than most. Its the kind of bike that allows you to just focus on the ride and not think about the bike, but as you can tell from the length of my posts I like thinking about bikes.
Braking and tire clearance is the clear limitation of this bike but for all but crazy desents on broken up roads its limitations dont stand out compared to my 180mm front rotor hydro braking 42WAM bike. Speaking of which that bike was out of commission for around 2 months during which I only used this bike. When I went back to a 360mm conventionally narrow bar from these super narrow bars that bike just felt so wide and wrong. Its crazy now comfortable and normal super narrow bars seem so quickly. At this point I'd say I prefer a super narrow flared bar for all the riding I do.
My Standard photo: More aligned to handlebars (man these super narrow flared bars make it hard to photograph): Labeling (plus you can see the handlebar flare in the last pic): My main Christmas gift is a nice 3d printer that I plan to try and make a front aero fairing with. No idea how well that will work out but looking forward to more tinking. Kind of sleeping on upgrading the front wheel to something more aero without adding much more weight but plan to do so eventually. For now I plan on playing with brake shoes to see if I can squeeze in 32mm WAM and then aero optimize a rim as close to that if it works. 30mm might just be the limit of this frame & fork though which is fine with me if it happens as this is just a 2nd bike for me. Also thinking about using the hole in the frame for tool storage but would need to make something that keeps stuff held in place well so it stays there when needed and doesnt rattle. However, that project is low priority & maybe never certainly lower hanging fruit to engage with first.
edit: Also back on the viewspeed skewers. I didn't notice a difference with the much heavier rear Dura-Ace skewer. In theory the Dura-Ace can add more clamping force, which I agree with, but I just didnt see any impact on the road from this higher clamping force to justify the higher weight and aero drag the Dura-Ace brings with it. Might matter more to a heavier rider
Also have a ztto cassette on order that I'll try out and you can see my preorder thoughs & expectations here
Maybe finally I can get around to fixing the darn chainline & migrate to the Sigeyi collecting dust too. Already this is the best shifting bike I've ever owned but I'm like 95% certain it can shift better still with chainline adjustments that would help the DFour but are required for the Sigeyi on this frame imho. Oh yeah I need to recable the bike to save a few more grams and fix the glaring safey issue on the front caliper... maybe some other day.
Last edited by OtterSpace on Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
- justinfoxphotos
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I hope you like your Gen 3 ZTTO cassette. I'm still in awe with mine. Shifting is smoother than the Red E1 on my Allez by miles, and it's so quiet now that I've swapped out the KMC X11SL chain with a Dura-Ace/XTR 12-speed chain. Blows my mind when I'm riding with a mate and all I hear is their drivetrain noise.
- wheelbuilder
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That's a strong statement. You believe that my shifting would be perceptively improved if I switched from my Red E1 to a ZTTO? Real talk?justinfoxphotos wrote:I hope you like your Gen 3 ZTTO cassette. I'm still in awe with mine. Shifting is smoother than the Red E1 on my Allez by miles, and it's so quiet now that I've swapped out the KMC X11SL chain with a Dura-Ace/XTR 12-speed chain. Blows my mind when I'm riding with a mate and all I hear is their drivetrain noise.
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- justinfoxphotos
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Depends on your cassette ratio? The ZTTO SLR Gen3 11-Speed cassette on my SL6 is 11-28, the Red E1 cassette on my Allez Sprint is 10-36. I put it down the the bigger jumps?wheelbuilder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 8:26 amThat's a strong statement. You believe that my shifting would be perceptively improved if I switched from my Red E1 to a ZTTO? Real talk?
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This is such a solid lightweight build with no compromises.
However, the 12 speed HG+ cassettes are so bloody good there is no way you'll get that same level of shifting on the ZTTO unit. I have the all steel Gen 2 version 11-34 11 speed cassette (R9100 mechanical RD) and it's much clunkier than my 12 speed HG+ Dura Ace cassette (R8100 electronic RD). The shifting performace is not even close - the HG+ shifts so smoothly that some gear changes are imperceptible.
I read in the other thread that you're replacing the XG1190 11-32 unit with the ZTTO Gen 3. In my experience the XG1190 11-32t shifts better than the ZTTO Gen 2 11-34t. I still have my XG1190 at 199g, but I like the 1:1 gearing of the 34/34.
However, the 12 speed HG+ cassettes are so bloody good there is no way you'll get that same level of shifting on the ZTTO unit. I have the all steel Gen 2 version 11-34 11 speed cassette (R9100 mechanical RD) and it's much clunkier than my 12 speed HG+ Dura Ace cassette (R8100 electronic RD). The shifting performace is not even close - the HG+ shifts so smoothly that some gear changes are imperceptible.
I read in the other thread that you're replacing the XG1190 11-32 unit with the ZTTO Gen 3. In my experience the XG1190 11-32t shifts better than the ZTTO Gen 2 11-34t. I still have my XG1190 at 199g, but I like the 1:1 gearing of the 34/34.