Sub5 with clinchers, Yet Another Aethos Build

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takolino
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by takolino

Knightyboy27 wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:19 pm
Impressive. Out of interest, what was the total cost all in? (not taking into account your time)
The rims are 600 each. Haven't seen them discounted anywhere in the US. I've seen them discounted in EU but I don't think they can sell to US customers.
Extralight SPD3 hubs are around $700 direct from Extralight.
Berd Spokes were 384 ($8 each)
$40 extra for straight pull inserts.
Sapim double square alloy nipples were $30 for a bag of 100.

1200+700+384+40+15=2,339 before tax and shipping.
worth it for a 928g clincher wheelset?
Cost is still lower than flagship wheelsets from the major brands and it's still the lightest available. If you send the components to Berd, they will charge around 700 to build it, then the price is up there with premium wheelsets.
I do this as a hobby and get some enjoyment out of doing the research, collecting the parts, learning about new products and assembling components so there's definitely some entertainment value for me personally. Plus, I get to share it here on ww so it's all good.

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Knightyboy27
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by Knightyboy27

takolino wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:52 pm
Knightyboy27 wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:19 pm
Impressive. Out of interest, what was the total cost all in? (not taking into account your time)
The rims are 600 each. Haven't seen them discounted anywhere in the US. I've seen them discounted in EU but I don't think they can sell to US customers.
Extralight SPD3 hubs are around $700 direct from Extralight.
Berd Spokes were 384 ($8 each)
$40 extra for straight pull inserts.
Sapim double square alloy nipples were $30 for a bag of 100.

1200+700+384+40+15=2,339 before tax and shipping.
worth it for a 928g clincher wheelset?
Cost is still lower than flagship wheelsets from the major brands and it's still the lightest available. If you send the components to Berd, they will charge around 700 to build it, then the price is up there with premium wheelsets.
I do this as a hobby and get some enjoyment out of doing the research, collecting the parts, learning about new products and assembling components so there's definitely some entertainment value for me personally. Plus, I get to share it here on ww so it's all good.
Thanks Takolino.

Based on those figures, definitely still a larger investment than I'd care for at the moment (as expected) but for a very light wheelset!

Would love to learn how to build a wheelset but I guess it's probably more sensible for me to disassemble a cheap spare wheelset and rebuild before tackling a costly project like yours!

takolino
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by takolino

Here's an update on the wheel build with Berd spokes. Although lacing up the wheels went without a hitch, truing them was a steeper learning process. At first, I just went ahead and used the plucking method get them to even up and spin true. That was fine but when I started to check the tension with the Park tool, it was all over the place. So then, I checked each spoke tension and tried to even them up using the tool but that made it very difficult to keep the wheel true. And on top of that, there was a problem with the callibration of the tool. The number on the Park tool seemed too high. At 100Kg, it was reading 19. All this was discouraging so I contacted Berd.
I built this tension gauge to calibrate the Park tool for different spokes. The factory calibration is very conservative.
I built this tension gauge to calibrate the Park tool for different spokes. The factory calibration is very conservative.
Charlie at Berd was very patient and helped me work through the issues. Everything was very clear after several email exchanges and all the problems were solved. Long story short, I was able to true the wheels and get the tensions correct.

The one detail that was missing from all the published information about Berd spokes was the cross sectional shape of the spokes. They are oval and not round! It's probably due to the weaving process but because of the oval shape, the spoke tension gauge cannot get a consistent measure if you don't orient the oval shape on the gauge consistently. They can vary 2-3 points on the scale between measuring the narrow point and the wide point. This explained the variations in the gauge readings. In fact, Charlie says their wheel builders use the plucking method because it's much quicker.

Regarding the high reading when calibrating, I probably measured across the wide part of the spoke. Charlie says they tension the spokes to 15 on the Park tool gauge. So equipped with this information, I was able to true up the wheels the following evening. Since the spokes do stretch a little, I let the spokes rest for a couple of more days as instructed before final tensioning and called it done. That was over a week ago and wheels are still true. I'll update if any issues pop up later.

takolino
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by takolino

Next up is Di2 modifications.
Shimano builds very well designed and reliable components so I was reluctant to rip things apart but there seems to be quite a bit of weight savings as demostrated by @Klaster_1, specifically in the battery. My plan was to completely remove any extraneous parts from the battery pack, including the housing and connectors and hard wire it into the handlebars. The raw batteries are a bit too large to fit inside the handlebars so I went with a slightly smaller CR2 3.7v Lithium-ion cell with 400mAh which is about 70% of the capacity of the original and further saves weight, about 20g savings.
With everything removed and smaller batteries, saving a little over 20g from the original BT-DN110
With everything removed and smaller batteries, saving a little over 20g from the original BT-DN110
Complete Di2 electronics with all wires, shrink wrap, junctions and batteries.
Complete Di2 electronics with all wires, shrink wrap, junctions and batteries.
soldered and shrink wrap before foam wrap.
soldered and shrink wrap before foam wrap.
I was careful to use as little an amount of solder as possible and wrapped everything in thin foam sheet before inserting it into the handlebars.
I was careful to use as little an amount of solder as possible and wrapped everything in thin foam sheet before inserting it into the handlebars.
By having all the Di2 components in the handlebars, I was able to do a straight run of wires all the way to the rear derailleur without any additional junctions. I used a pair of correct gauge wire without the outer protective shield for further weight savings. To protect the bare wires, I joined them to the brake hose with foam tube so that the wires don't rub against the inside of the frame. I wrapped the wires with additional foam in critical areas like the BB and near the head tube. By the way, that foam tube is not light so I cut them up and used a minimal amount which saved another 5g.
preassembled before going inside the frame. see the cut foam tubes joining the wires to the hose.
preassembled before going inside the frame. see the cut foam tubes joining the wires to the hose.
not exactly light
not exactly light
cut up the foam tube and spaced them out on the brake hose.
cut up the foam tube and spaced them out on the brake hose.
To finish up the Di2 wiring, I spliced a shielded Di2 cable to the end just long enough to reach the derailleur. There are no unprotected wiring on the outside of the frame. Wiring under the bar tape is also unshielded since it's protected by the bartape. I shrinkwrapped the bare wires to the brake hose from the handlebar to the frame. The thinner wires makes the shrink wrap much slimmer.
spliced with solder
spliced with solder
shrink wrapped
shrink wrapped
no exposed wires, just standard Di2 cable
no exposed wires, just standard Di2 cable
The wiring mod saves some weight but also saves money. I used some damaged Di2 cables as well as some short ones I have no use for. I soldered all splices and double shrinkwrapped the connections. We'll see if these wires hold up over time. There is some risk of corrosion but since I live in California and don't ride in rain, I'm not as concerned. For more wet climates, i would use silicone glue at each connection before shrinkwrap. I would also protect all areas where abrasion is possible inside the frame. Inside of carbon frames can be quite rough. I found that even the Aethos has rough glue joints inside, near the bb in the down tube as well as inside the chainstays.

takolino
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by takolino

Crank and bottom bracket
After the wheelset, the crankset is another component for big weight savings and the Clavicula SE is arguably the best choice, especially for the Aethos. I like the THM for their simplicity and no fuss setup as well as their incredible low weight without compromising function. If you’re patient, good deals do come around occasionally on ebay. Last year, TPC sold a bunch for around $735. They fit just about any bb and take standard chainsets. I chose a Fibrelyte 40t to pair with the 3T bailout cassette.
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I had a set of THM BB but they don’t come with a spindle shield. Surprising since many bikes have internal wiring these days. I 3d printed a custom one to interface with the tiny step on the inside of the BB. Added 6g. This will keep the wiring and hoses out of harm's way.
I had a set of THM BB but they don’t come with a spindle shield. Surprising since many bikes have internal wiring these days. I 3d printed a custom one to interface with the tiny step on the inside of the BB. Added 6g. This will keep the wiring and hoses out of harm's way.
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Speaking of bb, the Aethos surprisingly has a BSA threaded bb shell. It’s an even simpler build or so I thought. I greased up the threads and torqued down the outboard BB only to find that the cranks didn’t spin as freely as expected. This is before preloading. Upon further inspection, the bb shell was not square. Hmmm, a carbon frame that needed facing. What to do? After a quick google search, I only found one article that talks about facing carbon. I guess people don’t typically face carbon frames but they are subject to the same tolerances and need facing if they are out of tolerance. The article on La Velocita gets into the details but the tools are the same. They just don’t last as long and need sharpening more often. Not an issue for the home mechanic.

The LaVelocita video showed one of the mechanics using a sharpie to mark the faces to check material removal. This turned out to be good advice. It made it easier to tell when to stop. You want the entire circumference of the shell face to contact the BB. As I started to remove material, you can see where the bb shell was not flat. Once all the sharpie marks are removed, you know that the surfaces are perfectly aligned.
sharpie on the face before facing
sharpie on the face before facing
Using light spring force, after a few turns...
Using light spring force, after a few turns...
partial removal shows where facing tool has yet to make contact
partial removal shows where facing tool has yet to make contact
Facing did the trick. Torqued down the bb, installed the cranks, preloaded and cinched the NDS arm and all is good. Spins very freely. The removal of material did not cause any damage to the outer surfaces of the bb shell. No carbon visibly frayed or clear coat chipped. I used a light amount of spring compression and the tool smoothly removed a minimum of material. I would do this again on my next carbon frame.

more to come...

takolino
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by takolino

Stan's Grail CB7 carbon rims
I left out a small detail on the 286g clincher rims. Yes, they are extremely light but they don't have hooks. So you can't use Conti GP5000. I guess Stan's, being a tubeless centric company went for the hookless design. However, they have a small undercut so they could be slightly more reliable than a completelyl hookless design against blow offs. I am using Rene Herse Chinook Pass 28c Extralight which they say can be used on hookless rims. Tubes are Tubolito S Tubo which are extremely light at 22 grams each. They seem to hold air pretty well. Not much loss of pressure, maybe 15-20% loss after a week.

Tires, tubes, rim tape and wheels all together weigh around 1440 grams. This weight comes very close to a low profile tubular wheel and tire setup. For comparison, my Farsports tubular rims (240g each) built with extralite and CX rays mounted with 25mm Conti competitions weigh more. With Berd spokes, they will probably be very close in weight. Considering I have to carry a spare tubular tire, even a light tufo elite jet, clinchers have become a better option on pure weight basis, at least for me.
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bencolem
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by bencolem

This is one heck of a build, keep it coming!

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

takolino wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:01 pm
...I greased up the threads and torqued down the outboard BB only to find that the cranks didn’t spin as freely as expected. This is before preloading. Upon further inspection, the bb shell was not square. Hmmm, a carbon frame that needed facing...
Fanstastic work to sort this out. Very pro of you. Like you channeled Calnago's spirit.

However, is it just me or is a company like Specialized (or any other for that matter) supplying a frame that is in effect unfinished, akin to some sort of commercial assault and battery. How much do they charge for this frame? And the customer is supposed to finish its production at home with a $700 tool?

Yes, yes, many frames require facing and the LBS could do it before they sell the frame, but if it was your company, would you allow your halo product out the door in any other condition than perfect? Would you trust all your dealers to do this perfectly? or do it at all? I wonder how many will be built up with un-faced, misaligned bb's? Shocking.
Last edited by Mr.Gib on Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

FrederickVCyclestein
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by FrederickVCyclestein

takolino wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:01 pm


The LaVelocita video showed one of the mechanics using a sharpie to mark the faces to check material removal. This turned out to be good advice. It made it easier to tell when to stop. You want the entire circumference of the shell face to contact the BB. As I started to remove material, you can see where the bb shell was not flat. Once all the sharpie marks are removed, you know that the surfaces are perfectly aligned.


Facing did the trick. Torqued down the bb, installed the cranks, preloaded and cinched the NDS arm and all is good. Spins very freely. The removal of material did not cause any damage to the outer surfaces of the bb shell. No carbon visibly frayed or clear coat chipped. I used a light amount of spring compression and the tool smoothly removed a minimum of material. I would do this again on my next carbon frame.

more to come...
Crazy to see that nice of a frame still needs facing. I can't wait to see how the build turns out. It looks like a great bike.

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MrCurrieinahurry
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by MrCurrieinahurry

Ur a Braver man than me!!
Formerly known as Curryinahurry

takolino
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by takolino

Thanks for all the positive comments!
Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:39 am
However, is it just me or is a company like Specialized (or any other for that matter) supplying a frame that is in effect unfinished, akin to some sort of commercial assault and battery. How much do they charge for this frame? And the customer is supposed to finish its production at home with a $700 tool?
TBH, I never thought about it. I'm used to facing metal frames so it didn't surprise me, especially since it's a BSA BB which is usually faced on initial build. But when you put it that way, you're totally right! I have to admit, however, this is the first carbon frame I had to face. It's also the first BSA carbon frame I've built and as I was inspecting the BB area, I did notice that the bare carbon where the masking tape was removed was too narrow and the BB would contact the uneven paint. At that point, I paid more attention to how the bearings would spin so that's when I discovered the poor fit. I guess the lesson is face that threaded bb, carbon or otherwise.

takolino
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by takolino

Cockpit
I chose Dura Ace levers for two reasons: weight and hood shape.
While it’s hard to beat Sram Red rim brake grouppo for lightness, it's a different story for disc groupsets. For some of you, this is old news but I recently discovered that DuraAce R9170 is significantly lighter than Sram AXS and it’s mostly in the levers. ST-R9170 are over 100g lighter than Red AXS levers. And they managed to make it fit in the same volume as their rim brake levers. Impressive! Can't wait to see DA 2021.

With the modded battery pack and the RS910 junction stuffed inside the XXX integrated handlebar, I was able to connect everything without additional junctions and still have one port open for the rear derailleur. I spliced a pair of thin wires to a shortened Di2 connector to plug into the open port on the right lever and shrink wrapped the wires with the brake hose from the handlebar to the frame port so everything is tidy and well protected. The thin wires make for a thinner overall shrinkwrap as well as saving weight. Wire longevity is unknown, however. With gen 1 XXX integrated bars, I had to drill cable holes in the front part of the drops. Gen 2 are pre-drilled. Use a dremel instead of a drill so you don’t fray the unidirectional carbon fiber. With the battery pack in the left grip and charge port on the right, both grips feel identical with wires running down the front of the bars from the levers to the battery/junction.

I was hoping to further lighten the DA levers with Schmolke carbon lever clamps but unfortunately, they don’t fit. The hydro system takes up the space needed for the threaded part of the clamps.

The only other improvement I wanted to make on the cockpit was the stem clamp to head tube area. While the integrated bar/stem combo is cleaner at the front, the stem clamp bulge leaves a lot to be desired. Newer aftermarket combos like the Alanera, Metron ACR and F1 offer some improvements with spacer/headset cover options but they are not light. It’s time to spiff up the XXX integrated bar.

On my previous build, I designed and 3D printed a spacer/headset cover to fit the Metron ACR handlebar to the 3T Strada. This worked out pretty well so I did the same here. It was a bit more work matching the shape of the XXX clamp because of the irregular shape. I had to print and tweak several versions before everything matched up but I think the final version came out pretty good.
Each prototype fitted and adjusted, 4th one was high resolution Nylon 12 SLS print (bottom right)
Each prototype fitted and adjusted, 4th one was high resolution Nylon 12 SLS print (bottom right)
before - spindly neck
before - spindly neck
after - integrated look
after - integrated look
Stock carbon headset cap and 5mm spacer
Stock carbon headset cap and 5mm spacer
3D print and 10mm inner carbon spacer for structure - same weight as stock
3D print and 10mm inner carbon spacer for structure - same weight as stock

Small item but another weight saving potential is the expander. Specialized bung for Aethos has been lightened but still not that light. There are lighter weight options like the ultrastar but I’ve been experimenting with gluing in a carbon sleeve to anchor a nut inside the steerer. This creates no expansion and therefore no stress to the steerer but effectively holds preload, up to 8 Nm of torque with an M6 bolt which is more than enough for the headset.
stock Aethos expander
stock Aethos expander
glue-in custom bung
glue-in custom bung
For bar tape, I ended up using Lizardskin DSP 2.5mm for balance of comfort and lightness. I realize there are lighter weight solutions but the purpose of this bike, one of which is long ride comfort, drove the decision. With finishing tape and end cap, bar tape came in around 50g which is pretty good for a relatively cushy grippy setup. Not 100% with the color choice but I wanted something other than black. I might make some vinyl decals that match the color to add some coordination on the otherwise stealth frame.

More to come.
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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

That spacer looks very nice, what filament did you use?

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onemanpeloton
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by onemanpeloton

Great work!

I'd like to make a similar sort of design for the top cap on my merida reacto but don't even know where to start!
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

That spacer creation is first class.

As for the bar tape, I get that subdued matte black frames sometimes need a lift, but I vote for silver or grey(ish). It will still give the bike a bit of a lift without such a jarring effect. What colour are those little logos on the frame? Are they a bit silvery? Maybe synch up with that colour or similar. Stay classy San Diego.
Last edited by Mr.Gib on Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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