Factor O2 VAM frame and fork weights - Final Build, Photos, Ride Report Page 6
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zappafile123
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am
His comments re the ONE dont really align with my brief experience riding it - seemed very comfy and pretty responsive. That said I rode one rig that was like 8.9 kg which felt better than his rig which did feel a bit dead so its possible there is some manufacturing variance there which resulted in the poorer ride characteristics of his frame. I'd take what both of them said with a grain of salt. They are also no longer Factor dealers.Mr.Gib wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:42 amWell eff me! I have heard from a local dealer that Factor was excellent with their waranty, which indicates that some bikes had been replaced. But lot's of happy owners also. Perhaps this is something that just afflicted the first generation VAM. I guess we'll see. I would like to think at this point in the evolution of carbon bike manufacturing, that even though the VAM pushes the weight envelope, it shouldn't automatically result in a high failure rate.zappafile123 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:47 amThen the other manager turned to me and said 'there's been heaps of warranty issues with VAMs'.
Don't know what to say about the comments on the ONE. Maybe watch Alex Dowsett's stage win aboard a ONE? It seems to work well for the intended task.
Will have groupset (except cranks) next week. Will build ASAP.
FactorOne|SartoSeta|StorckF.3|Enigma EliteHSS|SworksSL6|ColnagoC60/V3Rs|DeRosa Protos|BianchiXR4/2|BMCSLR01 16|Cdale EvoHM|Focus IzMax|RidleyHe SL/SLX|BH Ulight|BassoDiamante|Scapin DyseysS8|TimeRXRS/ZXRS|TCR SL|RidleyNoah|Look585|CerveloS5/S3
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dmetzinger
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:46 pm
Great news on the imminent build Gib. I'm very curious to see what you think of the XXX barstem as a fellow (kind of) Clyde compared to my experience with the Balck Inc barstem. I rode the VAM on Saturday and put all my weight forward/over the bars and felt some pretty substantial flex. I'm really tempted to change them out as I'm pretty sure they're the reason for some of my "meh" attitude to the VAM. Once again, part of it's my fault for going with a wider bar than usual based on price (got 'em for $400) thinking it wouldn't be a big deal. Since I have the VAM listed on eBay/CL I'm not sure I want to hassle with disc brake lines as I may need to cut the connector ends etc to get them out of the Black Inc set and would need to reassemble if it sells. But I do think going with the 42cm Most Jaguars I have in the garage would allow me to really know for once and all if I should keep the VAM. I got sidetracked building up a Colnago C50.....
Zappa you can find rim brake F10 frames for $3000 right now - you can bling one out with EPS and some nice wheels with the money you'd save over the F12. Or you can go with the F10, Chorus 12 from Merlin @ $975 and some nice wheels for the price of the F12 frameset alone. I put Chorus 12 on the C50 build - it shifts and brakes very, very well. I'm still amazed at how much I like the F10.
Zappa you can find rim brake F10 frames for $3000 right now - you can bling one out with EPS and some nice wheels with the money you'd save over the F12. Or you can go with the F10, Chorus 12 from Merlin @ $975 and some nice wheels for the price of the F12 frameset alone. I put Chorus 12 on the C50 build - it shifts and brakes very, very well. I'm still amazed at how much I like the F10.
Seven Axiom SG - Force AXS rim brake
Colnago C50 - Campy Chorus 12
Wilier Filante - SRAM Force/Red AXS
Wilier Zero SLR - Red AXS
Colnago C50 - Campy Chorus 12
Wilier Filante - SRAM Force/Red AXS
Wilier Zero SLR - Red AXS
Bike is built but still waiting on the crank so no riding. When I get it done I'll post a couple of shitty pics and give some notes on the build that others might find useful. A few little intersting details, mostly good news - the frame is stunning, let's hope it performs.
The XXX bar...well as noted I haven't ridden it but I did sit on the bike and yank on the bar to approximate some riding situations. The one thing that stands out is the bar seems reasonably stiff pulling up but flexy pushing down - could that be right? I think the Black Inc. bar was intentionally designed to do the same thing. Perhaps it's intentional with the XXX bar as well. The squeezing the drops together test feels OK but again not dead stiff. Similar to my Fizik 00. By no means would the XXX be considered a stiff bar and I would not recommend it for anyone looking for a rock solid feel when hammering out of the saddle, sprinting, etc. The other caveat here is that I am doing all my testing with a seriously messed up left side - far from my usual strength, so it could be even softer then it appears to me right now. OTOH it would be very good for small riders looking for weight savings, or for guys like me, smooth, easy on equipment. I "ride lighter" then my 170 lbs and prize comfort so I'll probably love this bar. Remember that with Covid, I only have to sprint hard enough to beat my wife (which sounds easier than it is - she's a beast and getting stronger lately).
It is certainly attractive, and light - 240 grams (a few grams heavier than anticipated)
The XXX bar...well as noted I haven't ridden it but I did sit on the bike and yank on the bar to approximate some riding situations. The one thing that stands out is the bar seems reasonably stiff pulling up but flexy pushing down - could that be right? I think the Black Inc. bar was intentionally designed to do the same thing. Perhaps it's intentional with the XXX bar as well. The squeezing the drops together test feels OK but again not dead stiff. Similar to my Fizik 00. By no means would the XXX be considered a stiff bar and I would not recommend it for anyone looking for a rock solid feel when hammering out of the saddle, sprinting, etc. The other caveat here is that I am doing all my testing with a seriously messed up left side - far from my usual strength, so it could be even softer then it appears to me right now. OTOH it would be very good for small riders looking for weight savings, or for guys like me, smooth, easy on equipment. I "ride lighter" then my 170 lbs and prize comfort so I'll probably love this bar. Remember that with Covid, I only have to sprint hard enough to beat my wife (which sounds easier than it is - she's a beast and getting stronger lately).
It is certainly attractive, and light - 240 grams (a few grams heavier than anticipated)
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
Build complete. No issues whatsoever. Sorry about the lack of weights. I like a light bike but don’t obsess over hitting a certain number. There is also nothing particularely original or exotic here that deserved a photo on a scale. I ride a minimum of 3 hours nearly every day weather permitting, so if there was a goal, it was simply a bike that I’d be happy on for many hours at a time. With the Corsa 28mm and that 270gm saddle the bike is approximately 6.2 kg. I’ll get my hands on a hanging scale at some point to get an accurate number.
Apologies for the terrible photos. Perhaps in natural light the bike would look a bit more appealing. It’s pretty subdued.
First go at Di2, easiest build I have ever done. However the Dura Ace brake cables are horrid, rough, plastic covered things that fuzz up at the slightest abrasion. And the Dura Ace brake cable housing is soft. Used Jagwire Pro brake cables and Jagwire Pro housing on the front brake. However, the rear brake required flexible housing to accommodate the short distance to the cable entry port on the headtube. Factor provides a prepared section of Jagwire Elite housing and liner for entry into the frame (you can see the sections underneath the shrink tubing in one of the photos). For the balance of the housing, I joined two sections of the flexible silver part that comes at the lever ends of Jagwire brake housing. Using anything stiffer would have force the supplied section of Elite to handle all the bending – it would have kinked for sure. The proper thing to do is Elite all the way, but I didn’t have any in stock.
A few details.
Fit
Saddle height about 75.5cm. I say “about” because the SQ Lab saddle has 3 different levels each about 1cm different. I use all three “shelves” depending on the situation. My usual 9-10cm drop but 2cm shorter and 2cm narrower as a concession to a destroyed left shoulder. If and when I fully recover, I might have to get a longer wider bar/stem.
Bar
The Bontrager 100x400 XXX bar is 240 grams. Came without Di2 holes, so I created them myself. 55mm from the bar ends, pilot hole with a tiny drill bit and then expanded and shaped hole with conical Dremel stone grinder bit. Indistinguishable from factory finish. Bontrager Blender low mount to accommodate stacked Fabric Lumaray and Garmin 520.
Seatpost
Roval Alpinist 300mm. Weighs 136gm. Absolutely beautiful piece of equipment. Great clamp and cradle.
EE brakes G4 direct mount
Really very easy to set up. The only tricky bit is that the rear housing must be the correct length to the millimeter. Got lucky on my second trimming and nailed it. I think the new spring is too stiff which results in more lever effort than is ideal. But I guess there were problems in the past with some brakes not being able to overcome cable drag. No such problem on my build. One little issue with the EE brakes, when the handlebar is rotated all the way, the upper corners of the brake caliper contact the frame where the head tube and downtube meet. The edges of the caliper are all very sharp corners so it was necessary to place some thick frame protector at the contact point. You can see the little circle of protector in the first photo. Same on both sides. On many frames the handlebar smacks the top tube before the brake caliper hits anything.
Wheelset
Farsports Kaze 35mm deep, 28mm wide on Carbon Ti 20/24 CXray. 1260gm.
Cassette
Sram Red 1190 11-32. Will share duties with an 1190 11-30. I did the build with the bigger cassette to make sure it could handle the shifting. Dead silent in all gears with a waxed Dura Ace chain. I’d be surprised if I could tell the difference between this setup and one with a Dura Ace cassette. The wax might have something to do with how quiet it is. Although it was pretty quiet with the degreased unwaxed chain during the tuning process.
Ride report after a few rides.
Apologies for the terrible photos. Perhaps in natural light the bike would look a bit more appealing. It’s pretty subdued.
First go at Di2, easiest build I have ever done. However the Dura Ace brake cables are horrid, rough, plastic covered things that fuzz up at the slightest abrasion. And the Dura Ace brake cable housing is soft. Used Jagwire Pro brake cables and Jagwire Pro housing on the front brake. However, the rear brake required flexible housing to accommodate the short distance to the cable entry port on the headtube. Factor provides a prepared section of Jagwire Elite housing and liner for entry into the frame (you can see the sections underneath the shrink tubing in one of the photos). For the balance of the housing, I joined two sections of the flexible silver part that comes at the lever ends of Jagwire brake housing. Using anything stiffer would have force the supplied section of Elite to handle all the bending – it would have kinked for sure. The proper thing to do is Elite all the way, but I didn’t have any in stock.
A few details.
Fit
Saddle height about 75.5cm. I say “about” because the SQ Lab saddle has 3 different levels each about 1cm different. I use all three “shelves” depending on the situation. My usual 9-10cm drop but 2cm shorter and 2cm narrower as a concession to a destroyed left shoulder. If and when I fully recover, I might have to get a longer wider bar/stem.
Bar
The Bontrager 100x400 XXX bar is 240 grams. Came without Di2 holes, so I created them myself. 55mm from the bar ends, pilot hole with a tiny drill bit and then expanded and shaped hole with conical Dremel stone grinder bit. Indistinguishable from factory finish. Bontrager Blender low mount to accommodate stacked Fabric Lumaray and Garmin 520.
Seatpost
Roval Alpinist 300mm. Weighs 136gm. Absolutely beautiful piece of equipment. Great clamp and cradle.
EE brakes G4 direct mount
Really very easy to set up. The only tricky bit is that the rear housing must be the correct length to the millimeter. Got lucky on my second trimming and nailed it. I think the new spring is too stiff which results in more lever effort than is ideal. But I guess there were problems in the past with some brakes not being able to overcome cable drag. No such problem on my build. One little issue with the EE brakes, when the handlebar is rotated all the way, the upper corners of the brake caliper contact the frame where the head tube and downtube meet. The edges of the caliper are all very sharp corners so it was necessary to place some thick frame protector at the contact point. You can see the little circle of protector in the first photo. Same on both sides. On many frames the handlebar smacks the top tube before the brake caliper hits anything.
Wheelset
Farsports Kaze 35mm deep, 28mm wide on Carbon Ti 20/24 CXray. 1260gm.
Cassette
Sram Red 1190 11-32. Will share duties with an 1190 11-30. I did the build with the bigger cassette to make sure it could handle the shifting. Dead silent in all gears with a waxed Dura Ace chain. I’d be surprised if I could tell the difference between this setup and one with a Dura Ace cassette. The wax might have something to do with how quiet it is. Although it was pretty quiet with the degreased unwaxed chain during the tuning process.
Ride report after a few rides.
Last edited by Mr.Gib on Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:14 pm, edited 5 times in total.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
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dmetzinger
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:46 pm
Great build and impressive weight! I hope it treats you and the shoulder well, looking forward to your ride report.
Seven Axiom SG - Force AXS rim brake
Colnago C50 - Campy Chorus 12
Wilier Filante - SRAM Force/Red AXS
Wilier Zero SLR - Red AXS
Colnago C50 - Campy Chorus 12
Wilier Filante - SRAM Force/Red AXS
Wilier Zero SLR - Red AXS
Ride report.
First ride - 88 km yesterday, a mix of flat and rolling terrain. No major climbing or descending this time of year. Until this Factor O2 VAM, my good weather fast ride has been a Parlee Altum – which is essentially the same kind of bike, so a lot of my impressions are relative to that bike. I also have spent a lot of time on a Colnago Extreme Power (a very different type of bike) that also colours into my impressions. In the past I have had 3 different Giant TCR Advanced and Advance SL though not the latest revision. My winter rig is a fendered up Synapse disc. Travel bike is a Trek Cronus road (incredibly good bike that no one knows exists), and there are, and have been others.
Heading out my initial impression was that the Factor O2 VAM is a fairly smooth bike. I had seen comments from one journalist that the ride was a bit hard. I think that may come from the fork which while skinny and light, is designed to handle the forces of disc brakes. Depending on the road surface it can transmit a fair amount of shock to the hands - a ripple surface was more of a challenge. The rear of the bike seems more forgiving and initially I thought that I might be dealing with a bike that lacked some stiffness just by the way it soaked up the road. Oddly, there was still a fair sensation of road buzz on pebbly surfaces. I will reserve judgment on this as I had my 28mm Corsas on 21mm internal rims at 80 psi, 10 psi higher than usual, something I do on test rides to make sure I am not insulated from frame feedback by soft tires. Still, it is not an unreasonable pressure at my weight 170lb/77kg.
As expect the VAM really showed its strength climbing. It felt great seated, but out of the saddle there was more give than expected and some brake rub. In situations like this a lot of bikes “sag” a bit with each pedal stroke and the VAM is no different. But it does ultimately resist and is very responsive to accelleration efforts - it is a "quick" bike.
The handling seems well balanced between stability and maneuverability. It's adequately stable in a straight line though it feels a bit rubbery if I wiggle the bars at speed. I will have to wait to test how it handles high speed descents.
If I had to find fault, I can only do so indirectly. As good as the Factor seems to be, the Altum is every bit as good perhaps better due to higher stiffness and greater comfort. I prefer the geometry of the Factor, but others may justifiably prefer the Parlee. The simplified bottom line is that the Factor O2 VAM is about 100 grams lighter, costs a fair bit more, and offers a riding experience that is arguably comparable. Not that I was expecting it to be that different. But, considering that the Parlee Altum has been providing this “riding experience” since 2013, one has to ask, what real gains have been made in that time? Beyond better tire clearance (30mm vs 28mm), the question is not so easily answered. Are we at peak carbon? Perhaps the Altum is ahead of it’s time mixing comfort, light weight and raciness. My sense is that the vast majority of top tier bikes with similar design goals will all feel pretty close. It makes it hard to understand how some riders like one and dislike another. Maybe I just haven’t ridden enough different bikes. Or maybe a bike is such a simple thing – two triangles with wheels, that modern manufacturing has led to a convergence.
I must also praise the Bontrager XXX barstem. It is a very nice bar and certainly adequately stiff. It’s not a sprinter’s bar, but if you like a round bar and want to save weight, it won’t disappoint. The long reach (93mm) works well with my large hands and gives me a wide variety of hand positions.
First ride - 88 km yesterday, a mix of flat and rolling terrain. No major climbing or descending this time of year. Until this Factor O2 VAM, my good weather fast ride has been a Parlee Altum – which is essentially the same kind of bike, so a lot of my impressions are relative to that bike. I also have spent a lot of time on a Colnago Extreme Power (a very different type of bike) that also colours into my impressions. In the past I have had 3 different Giant TCR Advanced and Advance SL though not the latest revision. My winter rig is a fendered up Synapse disc. Travel bike is a Trek Cronus road (incredibly good bike that no one knows exists), and there are, and have been others.
Heading out my initial impression was that the Factor O2 VAM is a fairly smooth bike. I had seen comments from one journalist that the ride was a bit hard. I think that may come from the fork which while skinny and light, is designed to handle the forces of disc brakes. Depending on the road surface it can transmit a fair amount of shock to the hands - a ripple surface was more of a challenge. The rear of the bike seems more forgiving and initially I thought that I might be dealing with a bike that lacked some stiffness just by the way it soaked up the road. Oddly, there was still a fair sensation of road buzz on pebbly surfaces. I will reserve judgment on this as I had my 28mm Corsas on 21mm internal rims at 80 psi, 10 psi higher than usual, something I do on test rides to make sure I am not insulated from frame feedback by soft tires. Still, it is not an unreasonable pressure at my weight 170lb/77kg.
As expect the VAM really showed its strength climbing. It felt great seated, but out of the saddle there was more give than expected and some brake rub. In situations like this a lot of bikes “sag” a bit with each pedal stroke and the VAM is no different. But it does ultimately resist and is very responsive to accelleration efforts - it is a "quick" bike.
The handling seems well balanced between stability and maneuverability. It's adequately stable in a straight line though it feels a bit rubbery if I wiggle the bars at speed. I will have to wait to test how it handles high speed descents.
If I had to find fault, I can only do so indirectly. As good as the Factor seems to be, the Altum is every bit as good perhaps better due to higher stiffness and greater comfort. I prefer the geometry of the Factor, but others may justifiably prefer the Parlee. The simplified bottom line is that the Factor O2 VAM is about 100 grams lighter, costs a fair bit more, and offers a riding experience that is arguably comparable. Not that I was expecting it to be that different. But, considering that the Parlee Altum has been providing this “riding experience” since 2013, one has to ask, what real gains have been made in that time? Beyond better tire clearance (30mm vs 28mm), the question is not so easily answered. Are we at peak carbon? Perhaps the Altum is ahead of it’s time mixing comfort, light weight and raciness. My sense is that the vast majority of top tier bikes with similar design goals will all feel pretty close. It makes it hard to understand how some riders like one and dislike another. Maybe I just haven’t ridden enough different bikes. Or maybe a bike is such a simple thing – two triangles with wheels, that modern manufacturing has led to a convergence.
I must also praise the Bontrager XXX barstem. It is a very nice bar and certainly adequately stiff. It’s not a sprinter’s bar, but if you like a round bar and want to save weight, it won’t disappoint. The long reach (93mm) works well with my large hands and gives me a wide variety of hand positions.
Last edited by Mr.Gib on Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
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Knightyboy27
- Posts: 268
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm
Just took delivery of a VAM 02 frame, 54, disc. Was a bit surprised at the weight of the fork, which is 440g because of denser half-fork and integrated bonded “expander” bolt.
Last edited by MattMay on Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I ordered in March. Must say I’m not impressed with the custom “paint”. I got a black matte frame with gloss black accents and there’s no clear coat over the very thin accent paint. A finger nail could scratch it off. I’m going to do my own color change with auto vinyl wrap.
I’ll post some pics when done.
I’ll post some pics when done.
That’s a shame. Normally, their Prisma custom paint shop does a great job. I only had my LS done before they stopped doing that frame line.
The semi-matte/lustre paint for the first gen wasn’t bad. No issues with mine.
The semi-matte/lustre paint for the first gen wasn’t bad. No issues with mine.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc
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